Ken Krueger - So I'm sorry, but Eric Holder, the man who stirred the flames, now says himself that what many of us said was right. There was no "Hands Up, Don't Shoot".Brown DID attempt to disarm Wilson and DID charge at him.Furthermore, Holder's findings are the same as McCullough's Grand Jury.Wouldn't it have been great had the AG and other politicians behaved professionally and withheld comment on an ongoing investigation?Yes, of course.Why would they do this?I'm pissed, folks. I'm glad they'll quit writing so many tickets, and I hope racist email jokes are eliminated, but dammit, people REALLY thought Wilson was HUNTING for Black kids to kill. And based solely on lies, Wilson may still have a bounty on his head, but he will never again be a cop.Had Holder and Obama shown even a glimmer of support for law enforcement, the horrible violence and division could been averted, or at least mitigated.And, I might add, this is another important issue that was completely misreported by MSNBC, CNN and the rest of the MSN. AGAIN, who got it right while being mocked and attacked? Fox News.This was a tragic event, made far worse by political opportunists and hustlers.And now there's a genie out there that will never get back in the bottle.
Muhammad Rasheed - Ken Krueger wrote: "So I'm sorry, but Eric Holder, the man who stirred the flames, now says himself that what many of us said was right. There was no 'Hands Up, Don't Shoot.'"
Link, please.
Craig Wood - Amen! It wasn't hard to predict either!
Julie Summa - LEO's expected this result, it's just sad the man's career is over.
Melody Mayberry Buehrle - Preach it, Brother!
Muhammad Rasheed - Ken Krueger wrote: "...people REALLY thought Wilson was HUNTING for Black kids to kill."
I still think that. Where's your link that proves otherwise?
Tim Brown - I heard it on NPR today, "there was no hands up don't shoot. Wilson's story was very accurate and could not be refuted. All evidence proved Wilson's story".
Mark Tallent - Well said, Ken. And it appears the genie out of the bottle is appearing in some comments to your post. People who refuse to believe or read the report issued by Holder's Department.
Ilona M LaRue - Not only the president didn't show any support to the law enforcement, he made ignorant remarks such as 'racism still runs deep in our country' having a half black president didn't close any race gaps, but made it even worse. Go ahead, put that woman in the White House and let the male bashing begin!
Hank Mansfield - Ferguson Report: DOJ Will Not Charge Darren Wilson in Michael Brown Shooting...I was talking to a friend earlier about a video from LA's skid row where another guy went for a cop's gun, brought up the Mike Brown case.I think cops must be trained to do whatever is possible to stop someone after that happens, if they got away their mental state would be brought up if an innocent person was hurt.
Ken Krueger - M. Rasheed: CNN-The report says: "While credible witnesses gave varying accounts of exactly what Brown was doing with his hands as he moved toward Wilson -- i.e., balling them, holding them out, or pulling up his pants -- and varying accounts of how he was moving -- i.e. 'charging,' moving in 'slow motion' or 'running' -- they all establish that Brown was moving toward Wilson when Wilson shot him."
Hank Mansfield - So, the 'witnesses' who saw something that never happened were...what's the word?
Hank Mansfield - PERJURY
Ken Krueger - @Hank... another piece of cowpie...Man Shot Dead by LAPD on Skid Row Was From Cameroon, Not France: ICE
Hank Mansfield - ^^^That's the one. Cops with body cameras and witnesses with cell phones. It's hard to see him going for a gun, but he was definitely trying to fight a bunch of cops.
Ken Krueger - Let's do this the American way, Rasheed. Wilson was subjected to an enormous amount of scrutiny. There is NO evidence to suggest any "open season". Throughout this ordeal, people has simply made up stories that fit their opinions.Sounds like you were one of them.Why? Who knows, but the case against Wilson has been closed. Time to move on.
Muhammad Rasheed - Ken Krueger wrote: "M. Rasheed: CNN-The report says..."
There's no link?
Hank Mansfield - :Perjury (Missouri Revised Statues)
At a crime scene, there are witnesses.If a witness makes it into the courtroom, and comes up with something totally false it's perjury.That link is to Missouri state code.
Chris Lewis - @Muhammad Rasheed.. I believe Hank has a link posted above... one of many.
Muhammad Rasheed - Ilona M LaRue wrote: “Not only the president didn't show any support to the law enforcement…”
He did show support for law enforcement, just not for discriminatory practices with law enforcement.
Ilona M LaRue wrote: “…he made ignorant remarks such as 'racism still runs deep in our country'”
lol That’s not an ignorant remark, it is a fact-based remark. An ignorant remark is to proclaim that there is no racism running deep in our country.
Ilona M LaRue wrote: “…having a half black president didn't close any race gaps…”
Why would it? Did electing JFK nullify any prejudice against Catholics?
btw referring to him as “half black” all the time is a racist trait: A Brand New Rule Just For You
Ilona M LaRue wrote: “…but made it even worse.”
No, it just made the committed racist very bold and over-vocal. Case in point.
Ilona M LaRue wrote: “Go ahead, put that woman in the White House and let the male bashing begin!”
Men are supposed to be the strong gender, yes? Surely they can take a little bashing rhetoric.
Beth Hays - Muhammad, you apparently know how to use the Internet since you're on FB. Are your effing fingers broken? You can't Google "DOJ report Ferguson" your damn self?
Michael McCart - @Muhammad Rasheed, you are a moron. The native American Indians and the Irish were persecuted more than your precious ansestors. It usually only takes a couple of generations for a race to become a productive part of society. It is people like yourself who spread what they want to hear, and not the truth. Why not try to become a productive part of society??? Oh sorry, no link for that
Muhammad Rasheed - Chris Lewis wrote: "Muhammad Rasheed.. I believe Hank has a link posted above... one of many."
That's very nice, but I asked the thread creator specifically for the source of his definitive comments. I plan to address Hank's very telling news link.
Sonny Engler - I could debate this endlessly but o dont feel like typing it out on my droid , im was a Ferguson resident 35yrs and i saw police corruption on every level even against myself and can give eyewitness testimonial to how me and others were targeted and yep im also very poor and grew up on the poor end of town, im not a thug or a doper and o dont drinkIve had cops there tell me shut up or get a bullet in my head and not a damn thing would be done about it and they would just say i was going for their gun. We've had this discussion before you and I. Number of times something was actually found on me? Zero. My only offense was walking after dark, im not a dumb ass and Mike Brown obviously put up resistance and who wouldn't ,.but i don't understand why less than lethal could not had been used, other than you enjoy the idea youth are targeted and gunned down for petty crimes. Now the only question in my mind remains why would Ferguson police collaborate a fake hospital pivture of Datron Wilson and i know who the guy is and ive heard the n word fall out of hos mouth and tell black youth he would make up charges against them, im still a full fledge member in the largest Baptist church in Ferguson, called none ya business, and im in the directory as active but have not been in some time but will soon at the next quarterly meeting to cast yea or nay votes, all this aside and im not trying to change opinions but im not stooping to the pro white opinions many of you display and i dont need approval and im telling you Ferguson city officials and police are killers and profile black citizens and who here has even bothered to read the doj report today?Did you read it Ken ? Im sure you did and your one the smartest guys i know here other than myself and id love to debate this anytime on the air if given that chance but im okay knowing im pressing forward for #nojusticenopeace haters can cast stones now
Ken Krueger - At some point this has to end.Rasheed, do you HONESTLY believe that Eric Holder would cover for Wilson?If so, there ain't no point.
Beth Hays - God knows if we referred to Barry Soetoro as half white all the time, THAT would be racist as well.
The only racist on this thread Muhammed, is YOU.
Joe Clapper - The flames weerestired in Ferguson on beyond. Read the report
Hank Mansfield - Mike Brown Shooting Witnesses Gave False Testimony Under Oath To Ferguson Grand Jury: ProsecutorHere's a link to address.
Chris Lewis - I think everyone can read the other comments we don't need you repeating them. And the link provided will back up that it was not proven that he had his hands up.. I am sure you do not live under a rock and have already heard about all of this today and at this point you seem to be "trolling".
Muhammad Rasheed - Ken Krueger wrote: "At some point this has to end. Rasheed, do you HONESTLY believe that Eric Holder would cover for Wilson? If so, there ain't no point."
Still no link? Curious.
Ken Krueger - Sonny, the sad fact is justice was done. You can deny it, but in the case of Michael Brown, this case is over.
Michael McCart - Our wonderful President said while Ferguson was burning to the ground, that it "makes for good tv". I guess we are to believe he didn't have a live feed while he was speaking g to the country right? ? Fuel to the fire. That's our President
Michael McCart - Rasheed, do you really believe everything g the media says?? If you dont, then why make such a big deal about a link???
Mike Stroud - Mike Stroud pasted and copied this story
Ken Krueger - I posted it above Rasheed.No surrender. No hands up. No "don't shoot".
Look, if you want to argue the DOJ reports, do it with them.
Muhammad Rasheed - Ken Krueger wrote: "I posted it above Rasheed."
Do you know what a "link" is? You posted a quote, and you are conspicuously hiding where you got it from.
Why?
Sonny Engler -Ken i dont think its over at all, yes, DW will not face criminal charges but dear friend, and his problems have only just begun
Hank Mansfield - Weren't there riots in Ferguson after that?
Ken Krueger - I said CNN, QUOTING from the DOJ
Chris Lewis - How many fucking links do you need posted? Find the shit yourself.. it's called google or to make it easier it's about every third article on fb right. Grow the fuck up and get with the program.
Beth Hays - Several people have posted links Muhammad. Quit being ignorant. It doesn't matter of Ken posts it or Mike did. The outcome is the same.
Muhammad Rasheed - Ken Krueger wrote: "I said CNN, QUOTING from the DOJ"
Do you not understand that no matter how many times you said something, it STILL doesn't equal a link to the source?
Hank Mansfield - See Who’s Been Spotted in Ferguson Trying to ‘Incite’ Riots and Mingling Among Group Armed With Molotov CocktailsYes there were riots, and community activists were being brought in from as far as Chicago and New York to stir the pot.
Beth Hays - Ken, you're a better person than i am. I'd have removed this dipshit long ago. lol
Ken Krueger - Sonny, it's sad to see that those who demand justice making veiled threats against the law.Your side was wrong. I said over and over, building a movement on a lie would hurt your cause. I encourage you to take care. There is no patience left for this.
Chuck Yeager - You could post video of a ouija session with Michael Brown's spirit, exonerating Wilson and it wouldn't be good enough for this guy.
Muhammad Rasheed - ^Beth Hays wrote: "Ken, you're a better person than i am. I'd have removed this dipshit long ago. lol"
I know, it burns y'all up when a black person isn't willing to accept you at your word, doesn't it?
It makes you feel all lynchy and Darren Wilson-y.
Beth Hays - here is your fucking link you ignorant piece of shit
Muhammad Rasheed - ^Ken, is this your source?
Mike Stroud - Muhammad Rasheed wrote:I know, it burns y'all up when a black person isn't willing to accept you at your word, doesn't it? It makes you feel all lynchy and Darren Wilson-y.
Hank Mansfield - Muhammad, have you posted a link to support anything?
Beth Hays - You wanted a link from CNN Muhammed amd i gave you one. GO AWAY.
Mike Stroud - Beth Hays wrote: here is your fucking link you ignorant piece of shit
Hank Mansfield - What was the newspaper's original story there, the 'hands up' version or the cops version?
Muhammad Rasheed - Beth Hays wrote: "You wanted a link from CNN Muhammed amd i gave you one."
Did I ask you for one? Do you understand how actual discourse works?
Ken Krueger - He's not a dip shit. We've had some good discussions even though we fundamentally disagree.But Rashhed, show me some respect. And show Eric Holder some, too. He desperately wanted to find SOMETHING/ANYTHING on Wilson.If there was one iota of a crime, we'd know about it.
Muhammad Rasheed - Ken Krueger wrote: "But Rashhed, show me some respect."
I respected you to ask for the source of your comments that I may analyze your interpretation of them as reflected in your status post. I'm going to proceed now as if Beth's link is your source unless you say it wasn't.
Ken Krueger wrote: "And show Eric Holder some, too."
lol I respect his remarks better than you do as my responses will reveal shortly.
Ken Krueger wrote: "He desperately wanted to find SOMETHING/ANYTHING on Wilson. If there was one iota of a crime, we'd know about it."
Allow me to point them out to you. Stand by....
Beth Hays - Muhammed I'm done with you. Ken may have some reason to keep the peace with you, but i don't and your ignorance has revealed itself. BUH BYE
Muhammad Rasheed - Beth Hays wrote: "Muhammed I'm done with you."
At NO time were we engaged in this debate. That was all in your head, honey. Bye-bye now.
Ken Krueger - Muhammad, these are good people, tired of defending themselves against charges of racism simply for advocating what they knew to be the truth.They were right, and yet, not inclined to celebrate...a man is dead.There WAS Justice. Now let's see some peace.
Muhammad Rasheed - Obviously "good people" is a subjective opinion. Based purely on the comments in this thread, I see no redeeming qualities in any of them.
Elizabeth Jaggie - Muhammad Rasheed wrote: "I know, it burns y'all up when a black person isn't willing to accept you at your word, doesn't it..." Well that didn't take long at all for YOU to bring race into the equation Muhammed!!! Forensic evidence is the only thing I based my opinions in this case on; it sounds like you are just wanting to pick a side based on race???Very sad - I think you are the only racist here. Forensics showed that MB was shot head on - NOT from behind and NOT with his hands up in a surrendering posture. Forensics also place him inside of the LEO's vehicle with his blood on the officer's clothing and gun and his prints on the door. The evidence is there, but many just do not want to believe it.....
Sonny Engler - The law has threatened itself and i wasn't the one who removed 3officers today and they are taking 4steps forward for every one forward, im not protesting a thing in a violent fashion, i haven't set any fires, but im going to highly recommend that the only thing needed for evil to exist is for good men and woman do nothing and that is a greater evil, no, i dont want anymore young boys gunned down and i dont want Ferguson burned, but couldn't we all just be a little nicer and show mercy and kindness to the smallest most innocent lives of all in poor communities? But there a some in this thread that are on a witch hunt and exhibit kkk type behaviours , and that does not help the case of Darrin Wilson any and its shows prejudice. And now we move on to the civil litigations and im not a attorney but if i were and i could take the cop for all he ever made and i suspect that is coming
Mike Stroud - ^^^^^^What Elizabeth said.
Hank Mansfield - There's a movie called 'Wag the Dog', about how politicians will create a distraction to keep the media busy.The media bites hook,line and sinker on race related stories, I wonder if people 10 years from now will start connecting dots between ginned up stories like this and other events that were much more important in retrospect.
Muhammad Rasheed - Elizabeth Jaggie wrote: "Well that didn't take long at all for YOU to bring race into the equation Muhammed!!!"
lol Can you somehow actually believe that the Ferguson situation wasn't already pregnant with the racism issue?
Wow. These are your friends, Ken? Interesting.
Mike Stroud - Who made Michael Brown steal and strong arm a store owner? Not me. Who made him attack a cop? Not me.
Hank Mansfield - Go play in the highway, Muhammad. One couldn't describe your presence here accurately and make it sound 'nice'.
Hank Mansfield - And yes, Hank Mansfield said that.
Sonny Engler - @Muhammad Rasheed… i dont see good people here either and im sorry and their day will come, but i do know ken as a great linguistic and he is one of the best in thought provocation and he is not a racist, but as for some here and it pours out them, im sorry and i sometimes wish i hadn't even been born into such a world as today, but while im here and ive been hit with every type of belittling you can imagine and it doesn't even bother me anymore.
Chris Lewis - What he said ^^
Muhammad Rasheed - First you actually have to respect the intellect of the one attempting the belittling. Personally, I love it when mental midgets call me "moron," etc. It's adorable.
Mike Stroud - Hmmm. Sonny doesn't see good people here.
Sonny Engler - Darrin Wilson is a killer. Jr killed that boy in cold blood. Your wasting time trying provoke me guys and there's no point in it. #Nojusticenopeace #ferguson bye
Mike Stroud - Provoke you?
Hank Mansfield - Sonny Engler, sounds like you live there.Next time some jackass gets off a Greyhound bus and starts teaching a 16 year old how to make Molotov cocktails, tell him to carry his sorry ass.
Danielle Galakatos Lindsley - Sonny took his ball and went home. Harumph.
Chris Lewis - I personally could care less what either one of you think of me.. that's you're problem not mine.. others in this thread that know me know what I am about. So whatever you two think... so be it. If you can't face what the DOJ outcome was.. oh well.. not my problem either... whether you like it or not this case is closed..
Mike Stroud - Well Ken. This is an hour of my life I won't get back.
Sonny Engler - Really Ken you could call them friends? Come on man, we've come along way but these people are racist pure and simple bud, delete them and i hook you up with nicer white folks like myself.
Danielle Galakatos Lindsley - Ken's threads are always interesting. I rarely comment on them because they tend to get REALLY long and my notifications blow up, but this ... Seriously? THE DOJ, which about busted a nut trying to prosecute Darren Wilson, found no cause to do so. GET OVER IT.
Sonny Engler - Well 1lost his job and 2more on way out for racial profiling , ha, you've overlooked that , now who looks stupid, stupid?lol
Hank Mansfield - Phew.I read each link I provided before I provided them, and now I pity the entire town of Ferguson more than I did yesterday.
Muhammad Rasheed - Chris Lewis wrote: “I personally could care less what either one of you think of me.. that's you're problem not mine..”
That explains your burning need to respond to it from your impenetrable force field made out of pure butthurt. awww…
Chris Lewis wrote: “…others in this thread that know me know what I am about.”
And the written record of your FB comments reveal what you are ACTUALLY about. I suggest you not go into politics. You really suck at that.
Chris Lewis wrote: “So whatever you two think... so be it.”
Thanks. lol I can only judge based on what you decide to give me of yourself. Next time guard your bullshit with more care.
Chris Lewis wrote: “If you can't face what the DOJ outcome was..”
I have not yet began posting my responses to Ken’s status. For the most part you all keep interrupting with these crazy but fun, responses (not to mention that I’m actually multi-tasking at work). Patience, please. The real discussion will begin shortly.
Muhammad Rasheed - From The Big List of Classic Racist Remarks to Black People #41: "Get Over It."
Elizabeth Jaggie - Hmmm, I wasn't aware that we were discussing "The Ferguson Situation" - whatever that is...We were discussing the fact that Darrin Wilson is not being charged in the shooting of Michael Brown BECAUSE the EVIDENCE proves that he is innocent of any crime in the case. It's obvious that you are a racist Muhammed and it comes as no surprise that you are so disrespectful....You're not even in St Louis, so you know NOTHING about the "situation" here and while I don't know you, I think I've seen enough to state with certainty that you are an Asshole - they come in ALL colors but they're pretty much the same thing.....Good Luck in life with that sparkling personality!!!
Muhammad Rasheed - [flinches & covers ears]
Muhammad Rasheed - wow that's loud.
Muhammad Rasheed - lol
Sonny Engler - Whity cant throw punches and they call the police to do it for them
Danielle Galakatos Lindsley - There's this thing called "innocent until proven guilty" in this country. And Muhammad, you don't know me. You don't know one thing about me. So, you wanna call me racist, fine. I know who I am. You've made a judgement about me with little or nothing to go on except my skin color. Who is the racist again?
Muhammad Rasheed - Elizabeth Jaggie wrote: "Hmmm, I wasn't aware that we were discussing "The Ferguson Situation' - whatever that is...We were discussing the fact that Darrin Wilson is..."
Pretty sure the whole point of that had to do with the Ferguson incident. lol smh
Elizabeth Jaggie wrote: "It's obvious that you are a racist Muhammed [...] I think I've seen enough to state with certainty that you are an Asshole..."
I'll assume that you feel that because a white person is proclaiming this at me from their place of white privilege, with upwards of four exclamation marks mind, that I simply must take ownership of it and feel bad then? If i don't will you consider me "uppity" and call Darren Wilson's boys to come lynch me? Or will you just throw another nonsensical exclamation mark laden rant at me?Ken Krueger - No, Sonny (and Rasheed), and this is where I lose patience, this is about some to engage in a perverse habit to accuse those trying to speak the TRUTH, of racism.You were sold a line of crap. And if you were honest, you'd just say nothing will ever change your mind. But Holder's report is the final word.Do not insult our intelligence, and yours, with this.If you want some sort of revolution and you think this is worth going to the mattresses, it'll be a long summer.
Chris Lewis - Chris Lewis wrote... you could have been posting responses this whole time but you were to busy "multi-tasking" by repeating everyone elses comments and apparently facebook stalking. I believe it is your intelligence that is showing through.. Oh and you can't even begin to insult me with your snide remarks ... in order for that to happen I would first have to care what you think. And if you have spent all this time posting without actually having read the report first.. well.. that's just sad. Just proves you're arguing for arguments sake. Good night sweet prince.
Sonny Engler - Been a long winter. Might as well go for the big prize, but consider that im mot debating a DW trial and his life was destroyed when he pulled that trigger and emptied every bullet into MB.i feel bad for the guy I really do and he died that day too and will be lucky to get a ten dollar a hour job and how he gonna feed his family now ans supply his children with safety all the days of their lives?he cant but as i said his troubles only just begun and he is going need lits of money for lawyers because now it goes to the civil courts
Danielle Galakatos Lindsley - (third time, Beth)
Sonny Engler - I have nothing more to add but that having lived, loved, lost in that town and you couldn't give me a wheel barrel of Kitty's to move back there and they got some big problems still, but they are being fixed slowly
Sonny Engler - Im just a armchair warrior. But id say anything is possible if you use big enough words
Sonny Engler - Thank you so kindly for correction Beth Hays and im legally blind #really?
Muhammad Rasheed - Ken Krueger wrote: “No, Sonny (and Rasheed), and this is where I lose patience, this is about some to engage in a perverse habit to accuse those trying to speak the TRUTH, of racism.”
By an astonishing coincidence, I myself lose patience when racists spew their typical bile, and then get confused and hurt when everyone doesn’t accept it as a universal truth. You should do a better job of checking that behavior. It’s not nice. Ken, I already know how you feel about that stuff; it’s how you introduced yourself to me. You have faith that racism doesn’t exist. Naturally I disagree with this, and firmly believe this opinion is some form of psychosis.
Ken Krueger wrote: “And if you were honest, you'd just say nothing will ever change your mind.”
Slow down. First, wait until you read my actual response to your status. If after that you have no counter – and you probably won’t since what you just projected at Sonny and me is how you actually operate – then you may have your thread back. Promise.
Ken Krueger wrote: “But Holder's report is the final word.”
No doubt. But perhaps his investigation revealed the proof that allowing individual cops the discretion to kill at will...at their case-by-case discretion, with the obvious potential abuse of this power implied by this very case, is a great mistake, and we can create new laws that can control these needless, racism-based deaths.Chris Ray - Maybe I'm a bit of middle ground here, actually I'm not really sure anymore. Deep breath. The fact the DOJ came back with their verdict doesn't prove racism isn't amuck in the Ferguson police force. It doesn't even prove officer Wilson is not a racist. It can't! If the DOJ came back and said Mike Brown's hands were up and Wilson still shot him, that would not prove Wilson was a racist either. To know that, we would need to either know the man or see evidence in his past that would point to a racist history or lack thereof. Did he shoot other black folks, beat them with batons, tell his friends that if they were gone we'd be better off, etc. So we never had enough evidence to say Wilson was a racist. What we did know is that profiling over there was serious. Thus we may be able to connect the dots that the original "get out the street" was racial without being racist. Follow me? Now I may be naive or simply wrong on either side, but because an event doesn't involve KKK type racism, doesn't mean there isn't a inherent racial bias afoot. And in converse, just because two races are involved in a situation doesn't mean a racial element exist.
Sonny Engler - True story Chris Ray
Muhammad Rasheed - Danielle Galakatos Lindsley wrote: "(third time, Beth)"
Beth is still posting? She blocked me like a coward? aww... Cute. And typical.
Danielle Galakatos Lindsley - Typical of what?
Sonny Engler - Very typical.
Chris Ray - On a related note, and I think this is either racial or political. Just because a verdict comes down that doesn't make it true. And I'm not saying this one isn't spot on. What I am saying is that, you are never going to win over disenfranchised people with the statement that says, "The Franchise is right." It's like saying, "Scoreboard" in a game where you team is blowing my team out. We don't trust the justice system anyway, so when it comes back and looks like injustice, we aren't going to change our tune because the guy who ordered he probe was black. The problem is that we have seen it wrong too many times. So when like in this case, it maybe be absolutely right, we have PTSD. You have beat me up too many times "blind justice" for me to believe that this time is different.
Ken Krueger - Chris, there was nothing in the report that said his hands were up. It said "some said that".
Muhammad Rasheed - Danielle Galakatos Lindsley wrote: "Typical of what?"
No mystery. What is the usual reason for exhibiting cowardly behavior? Fear of conflict.
Sonny Engler - Ah now were seeing she has friends that knowwwvhimmm and doesnt matter what you think and i lived innn FERGUSON 35yrs. Having enough sense to leave when i did. Every pig there was hell bent on harassing black youth, having heard the n word fall out their mouths many times
Ken Krueger - Or maybe frustration with one who will not accept a truth that one doesn't like.
Ken Krueger - Ok, Sonny...you got that decision. Wilson got his, too
Chris Ray - How does Ferguson begin to heal?
Sonny Engler - Ty but the real battle has just begun against DW and yes a long hard year is ahead now but truth will succeed and the light always outshines the darkness. And please thank your friend beth for poking fun at a blind man for not being able see much anymore and i will try to overlook the rudeness of her but you know me and i cant resist a good chase, but o will tonight, very tough day and there are sick babies here and they so sick they were put in icu and omg im starting feel it too and i dont have the heart to tell them im sick too and im needed here so great talk everybody and i lovey haters so much and they are the very reason i get the big bucks these days
Jim Evans - Problem, Reaction, Solution....... cue the federally funded, trained & regulated, local law enforcement agencies nationwide. Thanks for playing, stay tuned for the next Hegelian Dialectic....... Remember we don't force tyranny upon you until we convince you to demand it.
Sonny Engler - Okay beth i shove it where sun doesn't shine if i can find it with my one good almost okay good eye i have left, us there anything else you can poke fun at a handicapped for tonight? smh should i cit my legs off for you too so you can me down, should i lose my hands so you can beat me silly, your so brave of your words i hope the lord blesses you and gives you all your desires and all the days if your life are healthy and happy
Sonny Engler - "Pretty sure you're the one that looks stupid considering you clearly lack reading comprehension. i won't even comment on the horrible grammar and lack of punctuation in your comments. Pretty much speaks for itself."
Sonny Engler - Why wait 5minutes?how about now and be a liberator
Sonny Engler - Im beat you to to it, ready go!
Sonny Engler - You be been liberated Beth and your free now to spout torments at others but not me never again. Anybody else?
Michael Treadway - I'm coming to this thread late and have to say that I'm very disturbed by the way Muhammad Rasheed has been treated here. Muhammad began the thread by doing exactly what I would have done, namely, ask Ken for the source documenting his claim that " There was no "Hands Up, Don't Shoot." Some FIFTY comments later, and only after Muhammad repeated his request--noting correctly that the quote Ken provided was not accompanied by a link--someone FINALLY linked to the DOJ report, with the words "here is your fucking link you ignorant piece of shit." (The first link provided by Hank Mansfield does state that "Accounts that Brown put his hands up are 'inaccurate," but Hank failed to mention that his link was even intended as an answer to Muhammad's request, so it could easily have been missed, and in any case the link does not link to the DOJ report for the full story. Similarly with Mike Stroud's link.) Meanwhile, among those 50 comments, even as Muhammad was being called a moron, a racist, and a dipshit, and told to "find the shit yourself," Muhammad himself patiently and civilly explained that he was asking for the LINK that showed that Brown's hands had not been up, not just the QUOTE that said so. I wish he hadn't made the comment about "lynchy and Darren Wilson-y," but I think in general he showed admirable restraint given the name calling. But some of the people on this thread should be ashamed. If you people out there in STL are hoping to heal the wounds from this case, this thread suggests you are off to a miserable start.
Michael Treadway - All that said, I appreciate whomever finally posted the link to the DOJ report, and having looked it over carefully, I have to say my opinion about “Hands up, don’t shoot!” has changed almost 180 degrees. I had previously thought it was more than plausible that Brown did put his hands up. In this I was influenced by a table (posted by NPR, I think) that showed that most of the eyewitnesses had claimed that his hands were up, and only 2 or 3 did not. I also had found the passage in the grand jury testimony where the coroner said that the position of Brown’s hands could not be determined from the bullet wounds. In contrast, in the DOJ report, most of the eyewitnesses say Brown did NOT have his hands up, and those who say he did were unreliable for various reasons. My best guess is that the rumor quickly spread in the neighborhood that Brown’s hands had been up, that this influenced the grand jury witnesses to say the same, and for whatever reason some recanted that testimony when interviewed by the feds. The DOJ report mentions several times that such rumors were going around. One thing I do NOT find in the DOJ report is any forensic evidence contradicting the coroner’s claim above, either saying that they had to have been up or saying that they could not have been. But absent any strong eyewitness evidence that Brown had his hands up, the indeterminateness of the forensic evidence on that point is not a problem. My judgment is thus that Brown probably did not have his hands up. My original judgment was wrong. And you can quote me on that.
Sonny Engler - Its very disturbing how he was treated, miserable start isn't fair and beyond tragic is more accurate
Muhammad Rasheed -
Muhammad Rasheed - Michael Treadway wrote: "One thing I do NOT find in the DOJ report is any forensic evidence contradicting the coroner’s claim above, either saying that they had to have been up or saying that they could not have been. But absent any strong eyewitness evidence that Brown had his hands up, the indeterminateness of the forensic evidence on that point is not a problem. My judgment is thus that Brown probably did not have his hands up. My original judgment was wrong. And you can quote me on that."
Thank you, I love quoting people. :)
1.) The lack of forensic evidence definitively being able to prove whether the teenager put up his hands in a surrendering gesture so that he wouldn't get shot by an aggressive white cop...
2.) ...from a police dept where the DOJ report showed that there absolutely has been an historic abuse of black residents...
3.) ...and where during the incident some actual credible witnesses did say they saw the victim his have his hands up at some point...
4.) ...means that in my judgment he probably did have his hands up.
And you may feel free to quote me, too. Thank you.
Muhammad Rasheed - It sounds like this "Beth" person blocked me, rendering herself invisible, and proceeded to taking abusive potshots at people she felt were easier targets. Interesting.
And typical.
Muhammad Rasheed - Chris Ray wrote: "How does Ferguson begin to heal?"
STEP ONE: Fire their entire police force and local government officials.
Laurent Torno III - 11 Alarming Findings in the Report on Ferguson Police
Egon M Krumins - A witch hunt by the DOJ....nothing more,
Gregory A Pucel - First, I agree with Chris Ray and Michael Treadway that Muhammad Rasheed was treated poorly on this thread. He, MR, has maintained his cool throughout this debate. Kudos to you, Muhammad.
I, for one, didn't have to live in Ferguson as a young black so I had no experience to formulate an opinion on their racism. I also decided to wait until all the testimony was given to the Grand jury before I j jumped into the fray.
Even if Ferguson was overrun with racist police, the DW/MB case must be tried individually. Neither Sonny nor Muhammad want to be treated or judged as a thug simply because other members of your race have resorted to thuggery, and that should apply to DW.
I didn't expect the DOJ to indict DW because the burden of proof is so high on these cases, but the report further than just saying that there is no case.
So, DW will probably face a civil suit. Could be a year or two before that decision is rendered.
And the unrest continues. Muhammad says for all the police force and government officials. Who does that? The PEOPLE. Their government has been in their own hands. With only 30% white population you have the government that chose. What percentage of Ferguson whites voted on the last election? Blacks?
There are probably measures to unseat the mayor in the city's laws or bylaws.
Muhammad Rasheed - Gregory A Pucel wrote: “Kudos to you, Muhammad.”
Thanks.
Gregory A Pucel wrote: “Even if Ferguson was overrun with racist police, the DW/MB case must be tried individually. Neither Sonny nor Muhammad want to be treated or judged as a thug simply because other members of your race have resorted to thuggery, and that should apply to DW.”
I have no reason to believe Holder’s team didn’t do exactly that, and very thorough in their investigation.
Gregory A Pucel wrote: “I didn't expect the DOJ to indict DW because the burden of proof is so high on these cases, but the report further than just saying that there is no case.”
I didn’t expect them to indict Wilson because the police have gotten pretty expert at covering over these crimes, and knowing how to clean it up so that their guys can squeak under those pesky civil rights violation laws. My first clue was when they refused to allow the store owner to have an opinion as to whether that neighborhood kid who’d been patronizing his establishment for almost 20 years was the guy in that infamous video or not.
Gregory A Pucel wrote: “And the unrest continues.”
Has it ever stopped? This country was baptized in that very kind of unrest.
Gregory A Pucel wrote: “Muhammad says for all the police force and government officials. Who does that? The PEOPLE. Their government has been in their own hands. With only 30% white population you have the government that chose. What percentage of Ferguson whites voted on the last election? Blacks?”
Yes, the last two presidential elections demonstrated the power they wield within that sphere, and it’s why the GOP panicked and started bringing back “voter IDs” and testing and whatever else they are currently cooking up to protect their power bloc.
The Killer & the Law, pt 2
And somehow I'm "the only racist in this thread."
Salaam Thompson - The model these discussions have has the same point/counter point/example/anecdote flow to it that any discussions heard on any political network or any open forum and so on. In those discourses arguments from both sides are made and cited. At that po...See More
Jay Mac - "Prove them wrong through actions and behavior"?
How about they stop breaking the law by discriminating against me and unjustifiably profiling me?...See More
Peggy Dryden - @Salaam… he wasn't insulted until he refused to stop asking for the link, when it was provided numerous times.
Salaam Thompson - @Hank Mansfield how's it going. Last time we wrapped you held Huffington Post internet citations among others in contempt. What changed since? Just curious.
Peggy Dryden - @Jay… you know that is a 2 way street. Not every police officer is racist or profiles anyone. And not everyone stopped by a police officer, no matter what color, is innocent or complies with that officer.
Salaam Thompson - Phil Heidemann just because you capitalize FACT doesn't make what you say "fact." You say "people below a certain income level pay little or no taxes?" How do explain this:
http://money.cnn.com/.../economy/buffett-secretary-taxes/
Randy Dolph Lowry - Hmmm.... Served as a police officer in a large N. County Muni for years. Two of them actually. Wonder if I have a perspective on this mess?
Jay Mac - ^^^ I've never claimed all police officers were racist, Peggy - but why is it so hard for some folk to admit that some officers are indeed racist and most definitely discriminatory in their practices?
Hank Mansfield - The idea that anyone here thinks this is an evidentiary hearing begs for satirical treatment.
Muhammad can respond to some of the points I've been making, without the courtroom style theatrics.
As long as I still care enough to respond, I follow the posts from everyone and try not to read anything into them.
Phil Heidemann - What Buffet is saying is that his secretary pays a lower rate, he still pays far more taxes. Also, I am sure that Buffet pays hers a wage far above the income level that does not pay taxes, That is how that works Salaam.
Salaam Thompson - Same story different source before I hear about the political stance of CNN:
http://www.forbes.com/.../warren-buffetts-secretary.../
Peggy Dryden - I have never said that there aren't racist police officers. That would be statistically impossible, since police officers are people too. A fact that seems to be lost most of the time. But to generalize and say that they are "most definitely discriminatory in their practices"? Nope. It seems that you only view the police in that light, at least based on your comments here.
Phil Heidemann - Is it discriminatory to look closer at a group of people that based on crimes stats are more likey to commit crime?
Jay Mac - Peggy, that applies to the racist officers. Not the non racist, unbiased and fair minded officers.
And I never claimed that you said anything.
Salaam Thompson - Peggy Dryden at NO point did that brother call anyone an asshole, piece of shit, dipshit, etc. He asked for the link. It wasn't given several times. The ARGUMENT was made several times.
Phil Heidemann - Salaam, thanks for supporting my point on the Buffet issue
Peggy Dryden - Funny Jay, you never seem to differentiate between the two
Peggy Dryden - I am not arguing the point with you Salaam - just saying he kept asking for the link, which was provided numerous times, and actually still has never made a comment of any substance at all. Looked like he was just stirring the pot
Jay Mac - Really. Why is it that when I say "racist police officer", you assume that I'm indicting the entire force?
Why is that?
Phil Heidemann - If you dont want us to assume the entire force, name the racist that you are referring to
Hank Mansfield - Salaam, my point was that reliance on a single source of information leads people to tunnel vision.
The media isn't perfect because it's made up of imperfect people.
They have ego and have been known to flat-out lie.
Comparing two opposing viewpoints, once you even know the bias, is time consuming and can be aggravating due to the subject matter.
When I see people being overly selective, repetitively sourcing from a 'pet' source, I start to disregard them after a while.
Jay Mac - How can I name all the racist cops on the force when I don't know who they are?
Are you for real?
Peggy Dryden - Why do you make such generalized statements then? How about "they" stop breaking the law and discriminating against me? Who is that, exactly?
Phil Heidemann - Salaam, how many people in Canfield do you think are in the same income bracket as Buffet's secretary?
Peggy Dryden - You keep saying they are discriminating against you and profiling you. Which cops did that to you?
Jay Mac - The "they" are the ones who are violating people's Constitutional rights.
Why do you assume "they" equates to the entire force rather than the guilty party?
Salaam Thompson - Phil Heidemann asked: "Is it discriminatory to look CLOSE at a group of people that based on crime stats are MORE LIKELY to commit crime?"
Man...you went so far down that rabbit hole you may as well say "eeeeemp! What's up Doc" and call me Elmer Fudd! So based on what you are saying Phil, YALL should be profiled. FBI, the guys who actually TRACK this stuff, has approved this message.
http://www.fbi.gov/.../tables/43tabledatadecoverviewpdf...
Phil Heidemann - OK, just names the ones that have discriminated against you, anything else is conjecture, assumption and prejudice,
Jay Mac - Peggy, it's metephor. And please don't get me trying to remember the names of all the cops in all the various precints that have unjustly profiled me. Are you really expecting me to rattle off names? I've been here for 46 years.
Phil Heidemann - Salaam can you extrapolate those stats in population comparison, and rurual vs urban
Phil Heidemann - Jay, I know it is much easier to lump them all together, isn't this what you are accusing the police of doing?
Peggy Dryden - Well if it's metaphor, then stop portraying it as fact. When was the last time you were discriminated against and unjustly profiled by any cop anywhere? Thinking it probably wasn't in Ferguson, but when was it?
Jay Mac - Of course my reality is just conjecture to you, Dr. Phil.
I wouldn't waste my time trying to prove anything to you even if I did just happen to keep a laundry list of police officer's names that have discriminated against me.
And no it's not conjecture. The DOJ report on Feguson confirms that Ferguson profile and targets blacks. Now You can go back to ignoring those facts, Dr. Phil because I won't be wasting my time with you.
Phil Heidemann - LOL
Jay Scott - This is the ONLY post I'll make about this situation. For everyone that is saying I TOLD YOU SO... I'm sure if the fact finding proved otherwise... they wouldn't be so vocal. Now that this particular issue has been addressed AD NASEUM... it is appropriate to discuss all the OTHER findings right along with it. All the blatant discriminatory practices by the police force and court system in Ferguson. Let's all use reasoning at the fact that there are injustices being overlooked every single day. So if you find yourselves getting hung up on one that was wrong but not the ones that were right... YOU are part of the problem. PERIOD.
Jay Mac - You want a fact, Peggy?
How about just last year. I was profiled last year.
Now that be a fact.
So what's your point, Peggy?
Peggy Dryden - Last year when? Where? What happened? Did you report it?
Jay Mac - Why?
Why does that matter? How does my personal experiences negate the DOJ's findings? How does that not prove that racism runs rampant in the Ferguson police department and that some of the officers are not racist? What purpose does it serve for me to spill my personal business on Facebook, which I am not about to do just to prove a moot point to you.
Randy Dolph Lowry - What a ridiculous turn this thread has taken. Bob, weave, deflect. How about someone actually admit they had the MB, "Hands Up Don't Shoot" fantasy wrong? THEN, we can have the discussion about racism and police work. BTW, not all cops prey on black drivers. Is there a culture of racism in police work? Absolutely! That has to change and the only way that can happen is change it in our society. There is ZERO chance of that happening. Sad but true.
Peggy Dryden - Not the point Jay - and not at all why I asked. But you keep insisting that racism is rampant, and in more than just the Ferguson PD. You also said that they should stop breaking the law and discriminating against you and profiling you. That is why I asked. Maybe if you shared your experiences, others would be more inclined to listen and things could move forward.
Salaam Thompson - Phil I honestly do not know and unlike our "friends on the right" I do not want to make any indictments without knowing the full story. The fact is the wealthy such as Buffett are not taxed the same as you or I for that matter. They have more revenue streams than you and I. So how to do they get around income tax? They don't report all their earnings as income! Sooooo, that said, the wealthy may pay more dollar for dollar in taxes. But that's not how taxation in general works. They do not evaluate deductions in dollars, they do so by percentage. So I am going to use my old neighborhood in Chicago for the following example. Englewood has a median income of a shade over 10k per year. Now, I am going to use South Pasadena, CA last I checked has theirs at 79335 (2012 figure). Dollar for dollar South Pasadena resident pays more. When you evaluate percentage, the poor generally pays more. To your point Phil, ain't nobody in the hood got capital gains in their portfolio, trust me. Not even the folks who work everyday from can't see morning to can't see night. You can survey if you like, but feel free to tag me if you find one. So even if you pay capital gains on that 79,335 at 17 percent that come out to according to my math just a shade south of 13-5k. Now to the young brother working as a night sorter at UPS let's say he make 15 an hour at 40 hours a week (2080 eligible working hours for our calculation) that's 31200. BUT, brother ain't got no capital gains! AND he single! So guess what? He finna get his pockets patted to the tune of 12480 TAXED at 40 percent standard for a single person! So yeah while South Pasadena resident pay a shade less than 13500, pays more dollar for dollar than the young brother in Englewood, don't mean nothing! The larger share of taxation is on the UPS dude. You'd be surprised JUST how many hard workers there are in the hood.
Jay Mac - Randy, no one claimed that all cops are racist. That strawman keeps getting rendered by some members.
Unfortunately, in order for change to take place - the public has to acknowledge that there is a race problem. As you can see in this thread, there seems to be an unanimous conclusion that there isn't a problem.
Jay Mac - Is it really that hard for you to believe that racism is rampant in more than one police department? Is it really that hard?
Peggy Dryden - What I believe has nothing to do with what you keep insisting upon, yet you are unwilling to back up your comments. And no, I don't believe that racism is actually "rampant" anywhere. Choose another adjective maybe.
Chris Ray - Ken there is an interesting dynamic in these posts and responses that I've noted for awhile. Everyone knows that racial profiling exists, and most opposes it. However, a great number in this group have said, the onus is on the community to straighten up and the profiling will stop. I will go out on a big limb(hopefully it's sturdy) and say, Darren Wilson is the victim of profiling. White cop shoots black kid on the street in black area, where the two sides have a rough history. Now let's say based on the grand jury and DOJ that Mr. Wilson is absolutely innocent. That would make him an unfortunate victim of profiling, but he was at least exonerated before going to jail.
So what's the problem here? Many of you are up in arms with all those that perpetuated the profiling of Wilson; yet, you blamed the black community for causing the profiling it is a victim of. Why not blame officers for Wilson being profiled? If police in poor communities didn't have a long history of shady practices, then there would be no reason to profile, right? Anytime one of us brings up the problems with policing and profiling, a great percentage of the responses are "yeah, but". Basically, it's a problem, but let's just talk about this one time when we think the cop was right. So looking at cops as individuals is imperative, but it's ok to look at the poor black community as a monolith. I know no one will fess up to that mentality, but it surely looks that way from the outside looking in.
Salaam Thompson - Hank Mansfield gotcha!
Jay Mac - Ok, Peggy - so the DOJ should open an investigation on all the county police deparments - especially in North County? That's only way you'll accept that there is a race problem in a many lf these police departments?
Pinelawn is worse than Ferguson. And I know this not only by my friends who live in Pinelawn, I know this by personal experience.
The Jennings police department was disbanded due to racial tension (ironically where Darren Wilson is from). St. Louis County is now running Jennings.
These are just two departments. Surely you don't believe that the black citizens in St. Louis county are just paranoid?
Hank Mansfield - http://www.washingtonpost.com/.../2014/09/06/stop-and-seize/
Bear in mind that this story is tangential to the arguments of low-income neighborhoods and crime that originates with black market drugs.
Interdiction of drugs happens at border crossings an...See More
Salaam Thompson - Peggy Dryden was it Muhammad Rasheed didn't make any comment of substance, or didn't make a comment you agreed with? I would imagine if his comments lacked substance it should have evoked ambivalence toward his commentary. It did not. It evoked unwarranted insult and vile name calling. Oh I read thru the posts! See, many of you make comments of substance, and I may not agree with them, albeit often. I'm just citing the tunnel vision that Hank Mansfield spoke on earlier.
Peggy Dryden - @Jay… I never said you or anyone else was paranoid. But you keep missing the point, or intentionally avoiding it. You keep saying that "they" should stop discriminating against YOU and profiling YOU. Yet you won't actually ever say when, where, or what happened. That's up to you, but it leads others to wonder about some of your statements.
Salaam Thompson - @Chris Ray
Muhammad Rasheed - Randy Dolph Lowry wrote: "What a ridiculous turn this thread has taken. Bob, weave, deflect. How about someone actually admit they had the MB, 'Hands Up Don't Shoot' fantasy wrong?"
Because that doesn't line up with the facts. There were many witnesses, and the report pointed out that of the credible witnesses used, some did say that he had his hands up. That means it certainly wasn't a fantasy of the anti-racism proponents, but shows that at some point during the confrontation Mike brown did have his hands up. One of the unreliable witnesses claimed he said "Don't Shoot" and the Pro-Darren Wilson crowd somehow magically interpreted that as mean Brown 100% never, ever had his hands up ever.
In light of this observation in your behaviour, I suggest you cease bringing up the term 'fantasy' in public lest you embarrass yourself further.
Muhammad Rasheed - Jay Mac wrote: "Why? Why does that matter? How does my personal experiences negate the DOJ's findings?"
It's a clumsy attempt at a straw man misdirection.
Hank Mansfield - Muhammad, "credible', in this case, means they were in the same zip code on the same day.
Muhammad Rasheed - Hank Mansfield is of the opinion that the witnesses that were considered credible weren't credible at all.
I guess we can take that, and a nickel, and buy five cent worth of candy.
Hank Mansfield - http://www.pbs.org/.../michael-browns-official-autopsy.../
Peggy Dryden - The DOJ report doesn't actually say that any of the witnesses they determined were "credible" said that Brown had his hands up. At least not in the surrender gesture that is being widely touted. What they said was that his hands were out with the palms up, in a gesture more like "What?". Not surrender.
Muhammad Rasheed - Ah. I remember you, Hank. You enjoy bombarding the thread with links without ever explaining how any of them support the points you kind of try to make. Is that your thing?
Peggy Dryden - Wait, last night you were insisting on links for everything. Now you don't want any links? Just trying to keep up. . .
Hank Mansfield - Muhammad Rasheed wrote: Blah blah.
Muhammad Rasheed - Peggy Dryden wrote: “The DOJ report doesn't actually say that any of the witnesses they determined were ‘credible’ said that Brown had his hands up.”
Meanwhile, yes, they did. Several accounts said that he had his hands up in variously described poses, each suggesting they represented a piece of the greater timeline of events.
Peggy Dryden wrote: “At least not in the surrender gesture that is being widely touted.”
Since it was one of the witnesses who were not credible that was responsible for providing that gesture, why do you think that is relevant here?
Peggy Dryden wrote: “What they said was that his hands were out with the palms up, in a gesture more like ‘What?’ Not surrender.”
That doesn’t describe all of the witness testimonies of the group that said he had his hands up, but a part of the whole.
Muhammad Rasheed - Hank Mansfield wrote: "Muhammad Rasheed wrote: Blah blah."
TRANSLATION: "Yes, that's my thing."
Hank Mansfield - Whatever.
My point has been that I'm not loading up a work truck and driving to Ferguson to try and pitch in.
Phil Heidemann - The real truth is there are real problems here, and there is responsibility for it on many sides. The only way change will happen is when all sides stop assessing blame and take responsibility for their own part like the serenity prayer says"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference. "
Hank Mansfield - Muhammad, you aren't a lawyer.
You are a fool.
Muhammad Rasheed - Peggy Dryden wrote: “Wait, last night you were insisting on links for everything.”
That’s one way of putting it. Another more accurate way would be, “I asked Ken to provide the source for where his definitive, 100% sure statements came from in his original status post.” But I can see how you would get confused.
Peggy Dryden wrote: “Now you don't want any links? Just trying to keep up. . .”
lol Again, you are confused. Let me help: Hank is the type of pseudo-intellectual who bombards a thread with links as if that is supposed to mean he’s providing an argument of his own by default, without actually saying anything himself. Like the social media version of that blond ponytail guy in the Harvard bar from Good Will Hunting (“Do you like apples?”)
Please stop doing that, Hank. Really.
Salaam Thompson - Phil Heidemann regarding your extrapolation request, that would change the argument so the comment you made about being discriminatory flies under the radar of the racial profiling that other folks here are talking about to deaf ears. You asked "is it discriminatory to look CLOSE at a group of PEOPLE" not where they live. So now we've highlighted this distinction you wanna change the qualifier to locale? Because the black on black numbers (you called it urban, but you were REALLY meaning black on black so go head and say it, no euphemistically driven filters please) are cited everytime when racial profiling and a murder of a black person at the hands of a white person is discussed. The argument often used is "well people generally commit crime in areas they live." That would have been the perfect segueway to drop the black on black crime states (since the distinction of urban and rural was made) When the reality is rural areas (okay I'll say it WHITE areas) aren't necessarily models of utopic bliss according to the FBI data. Since people generally commit crimes where they are, I will zoom in more. Total population is in bold at the column headers:
Phil Heidemann - Very good points Salaam.
Salaam Thompson - @Peggy Dryden... he copied and pasted what others had and added his commentary in the segments of the pasted text. Again just because a point is repeated often does not make it true. Various citations of many subsequent tangent subjects were made after that.
Hank Mansfield - OK Muhammad, since you asked nicely.
The big picture and my viewpoint don't really matter anyway, at least to you.
Why don't you load up a truck with tools, drive to Ferguson and rebuild the place? It would be a lot more productive and fit your intellectual capacity better.
Phil Heidemann - Salaam, another good point, A good example is the people that kept insisting that Darren Wilson killed Mime Brown without provocation, they could recite "hands up, dont shoot" over and over, and did not make it fact
Chris Lewis - Well Mohammed, the way I look at Hank's "thing" as opposed to yours is... at least his has some subtance and is relevant to the conversation. Unlike your specialty in re-posting comments people have already made. Then you end it with some snide, snarky remark which I guess you perceive as being witty?
Salaam Thompson - Honestly Phil Heidemann when and where the Hands Up Don't Shoot mantra is really small potatoes compared to the larger and historically oft repeated occurrences.
Peggy Dryden - He didn't add any substantive "commentary" at all. Still hasn't. And apparently hasn't actually read the DOJ report either, because he keeps misquoting it.
Muhammad Rasheed - Peggy Dryden wrote: "Salaam - I wasn't in on the thread last night, so I had a lot of catching up to do this morning. But no, he did not ever make any comment last night that had any substance at all. Will have to look again, but I don't think he has yet. His "commentary" was mostly copying and pasting what others had posted, and refusing to stop asking Ken for a link, when it had been provided numerous times. Resorting to name-calling is not usually my style, but it does get frustrating when someone refuses to stop asking the same question, over and over and over again, and refusing the response. Exercise in futility comes to mind."
lol The important part you seemed to have missed is that I wasn't talking to you. I was asking my FB Friend Ken to provide the link. Whatever you thought about what was going on, and how you decided to interpret it had zero relevance in any way, shape, or form to the discussion I was having with my FB Friend.
Peggy Dryden - The only thing being repeated were his demands for a link, which had already been provided, and then copying and pasting what others had posted. Kinda like he is doing now . . .
Peggy Dryden - See? Still doing it . . .
Muhammad Rasheed - Hank Mansfield wrote: "OK Muhammad, since you asked nicely. The big picture and my viewpoint don't really matter anyway, at least to you. Why don't you load up a truck with tools, drive to Ferguson and rebuild the place? It would be a lot more productive and fit your intellectual capacity better."
I have a much better idea: Why don't you, and those who share your world view, stop being racists and contributing that vicious and unnecessary evil to the world's problems? Make that happen, please. There's a lad.
Salaam Thompson - He is copying and pasting Peggy but you are ignoring his input beneath the pasted text segments.
Peggy Dryden - Not ignoring anything. Just because he adds something doesn't make it substantive at all.
Muhammad Rasheed - Peggy Dryden wrote: "See? Still doing it..."
I'm positive that if you put forth the effort, you'll manage to get over it. I suggest you start now.
Salaam Thompson - Like that one Peggy ^^
Peggy Dryden - Which one Salaam? Too many to choose from to be sure.
Peggy Dryden - And still nothing substantive at all.
Chris Lewis - And also Mohammed, you "suggestion" to Randy Dolph Lowryregarding bringing up the term fantasy in public to keep from embarrassing himself? Really? I think the general consensus would be that it is NOT Randy embarrassing himself but possibly you embarrassing yourself with all this non-sense.
Muhammad Rasheed -
Muhammad Rasheed - I'll give Ken another shot at countering...
Peggy Dryden - You really need a hobby. And a grip
Muhammad Rasheed - And you need to practice integrity, courage, and genuine truth-seeking.
Salaam Thompson - Peggy Dryden those two Excel spreadsheets above speak in contrast to what you just said.
Muhammad Rasheed - lol You'll be better off by just stop addressing her. There's no value in her argument.
Peggy Dryden - In contrast to what? Because he made spreadsheets of Ken's comments about one situation, and then used the DOJ report on a different topic?
Muhammad Rasheed - See? She enjoys staying in a confused state.
Hank Mansfield - How do you block someone on facebook?
I can just ignore argumentative types that use words they don't understand, and who consider anything like actual work beneath them, but the sheer tedium of seeing my name in print and the little notification noises that accompany each flag are tiresome.
Peggy Dryden - I am not confused by anything except you and your refusal to face reality.
Muhammad Rasheed - I'm going to assume it's one of the stages of her defensive victim role she'll probably start playing on cue. "Oh! Ah caught de vapors! The bad black men...! The room...! It's spinning! Ahm falling!"
Muhammad Rasheed - "They're trying to rape me through the Internet, white knights! Please save me! Oh! "
Peggy Dryden - And you claim I'm confused? LMAO!
Muhammad Rasheed - "The spread sheets! The letters are so... black!! Help me!!"
Hank Mansfield - Peggy Dryden wrote:
LMAO.
Racist!
Muhammad Rasheed - "Are you going to let this black beast talk to me this way, Hank??? Be a MAN!!!"
Peggy Dryden - Instead of trying, and failing miserably, to insult me, why don't you actually respond to the fact that the spreadsheets are pointless because you used Ken's comments about the Michael Brown situation and used the other DOJ report?
Peggy Dryden Instead of trying, and failing miserably, to insult me, why don't you actually respond to the fact that the spreadsheets are pointless because you used Ken's comments about the Michael Brown situation and used the other DOJ report?
Salaam Thompson - And ALLLLLLLLLLLL those white folks killing in rural areas whose doing THAT? So you're all for profiling black people for the propensity of a smaller number to commit crime, but you are using that sane small number to minimize the larger number of whites who commit crime as recorded by FBI?
Peggy Dryden - Oh wait, then THAT would be something substantive . . . never mind
Chris Ray - It's is possible to be both civil and adult, even when we disagree.
Peggy Dryden - @Chris Ray… it definitely it for most people. But not everyone apparently.
Muhammad Rasheed - Peggy Dryden wrote: "Instead of trying, and failing miserably, to insult me..."
I expect your white privilege forcefield to make you invulnerable to insult from those such as myself.
Peggy Dryden wrote: "...why don't you actually respond to the fact that the spreadsheets are pointless because..."
Because a white woman proclaimed they were with her superior race white woman magic. I know.
Peggy Dryden wrote: "...you used Ken's comments about the Michael Brown situation and used the other DOJ report?"
Meanwhile -- allow me to help you with your confusion, Madame Super White Woman -- I used the CNN article he used as a source to compare his definitive comments against. Please try to keep up.
Chris Ray - Salaam, when profiling is done in urban areas it's for the greater good of the city. When it's done in the burbs, hinterlands and cyber world, it's called Big Brother or Big Government and must be stopped. All I'm saying is, either own the hypocrisy, or see it and turn from it. But there is definitely a double standard afoot.
Muhammad Rasheed - Chris Ray wrote: "It's is possible to be both civil and adult, even when we disagree."
After all the name calling I absorbed from this lot while patiently asking for Ken's link? I doubt it. To be fair, I'm probably the wrong person to ask considering I have a certain amount of bias now because of their initial behaviour.
Peggy Dryden - You have a "certain amount of bias" . . . "because of their initial behaviour"? That is hilarious.
Chris Ray - I hear you Sheed, but somebody has to bring it back or the discourse is fruitless.
Hank Mansfield - Lesson of the day.
Reductio ad absurdum is a tried and true way for a fool to tie up a much smarter person long past the point of logical consistency.
It takes practice to realize when one is employing it against you....See More
Reductio ad absurdum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Reductio ad absurdum (Latin: "reduction to absurdity"; pl.: reductiones ad absurdum), also known as argumentum ad absurdum (Latin: argument to absurdity), is a common form of argument which seeks to demonstrate that a statement is true by showing that a false, untenable, or absurd result follows fro…
EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG
Peggy Dryden - So instead of actually using the DOJ report, you use the media interpretation of it? That makes your spreadsheets more worthless than I thought.
Phil Heidemann - Peggy, you can not reason with those that have an agenda and will use every tactic to further that agenda
Muhammad Rasheed - Peggy Dryden wrote: "So instead of actually using the DOJ report, you use the media interpretation of it? That makes your spreadsheets more worthless than I thought. "
That's precisely what Ken used to proclaim his very inaccurate statements, and again...
...do the spreadsheets have your name on them? Were they designed to compare/contrast the statements that you yourself made?
Peggy Dryden - I'm curious who has the time, or the inclination, to create spreadsheets like this. All for a FB comment
Peggy Dryden - Are you sure that is what Ken used for his statements? I seem to recall you demanding a link, and being given links by other people.
Muhammad Rasheed - So is this an admission that all of your FB comments are flip and worthless then?
Salaam Thompson - That's all I been highlighting Chris Ray. We get past the hypocrisy we can make headway.
Peggy Dryden - Who are you directing that question to?
Muhammad Rasheed - You, of course.
Peggy Dryden - I read BOTH reports. Have you?
Muhammad Rasheed - You just said you are incredulous that someone put time and effort into a mere FB comment.
Peggy Dryden - Where would you possibly get an assumption like that?
Chris Ray - Phil, everyone in this thread has an agenda. I have yet to see one responder say, "thanks for helping me see things from your vantage point."
Muhammad Rasheed - Peggy Dryden wrote: "I read BOTH reports."
Then why were your comments so wrong? This is the time to start practising that integrity we mentioned earlier.
Peggy Dryden - No. I didn't. I said I was curious. So you can stop projecting your meaningless opinions on me
Muhammad Rasheed - lol Not until you stop doing the same. deal?
Peggy Dryden - What comments were wrong? Because you don't agree with me, or with the facts, doesn't make them wrong.
Peggy Dryden - I haven't projected anything onto you. You clearly cannot say the same thing.
Muhammad Rasheed - I already pointed them out in your comments, but you pretended you didn't see it because I was quoting you and you hate that.
Peggy Dryden - Again, trying and failing miserably to insult me does nothing to further your cause.
Peggy Dryden - It just takes an additional 10 comments for you to maybe respond to a question
Muhammad Rasheed - Peggy Dryden, nothing about you aids my cause. I'm responding to your comments because it's entertaining me.
Jay Mac - Mr. Muhammad Rasheed, I think you've done an excellent job at defending your position!
Ken Krueger - @Salaam Thompson
Muhammad Rasheed - Thanks, but...
"pearls before swine."
Muhammad Rasheed - Alas.
Hank Mansfield - Twist in the wind. Socrates.
Peggy Dryden - which position would that be Jay? Since he has never actually stated one.
Muhammad Rasheed - ^Is this you projecting on me?
Muhammad Rasheed - I believe that it is. Imagine that.
Peggy Dryden - Not at all. Just stating the facts
Muhammad Rasheed - "Ah caught de vapors! Oh!"
Chris Lewis - I think Mohammed has done an excellent job trying to act cool to show off for his friends! ( eyeroll )
Muhammad Rasheed - [clutches pearls]
Peggy Dryden - You have argued and copied and pasted but never really had an original thought
Muhammad Rasheed - Sure.
Muhammad Rasheed - #integrityCheckFailure
Peggy Dryden - or at least not written one (without copying and pasting)
Hank Mansfield - #PootieTang
Salaam Thompson - I am present Ken Krueger.
Ken Krueger - Muhammad and Peggy, in this day and age, cross racial discussions are tricky enough without getting emotion into it.
As much as I'd LOVE to return to the 70's when we COULD give each other shit and assume the best in each other, I'd hate to see a simple mistake end up blowing what I've been trying to build here.
And Jay Mac, you flip pin' shit disturber...knock it off, knucklehead!...See More
Muhammad Rasheed - Peggy, I see you've decided to not take my advice to start getting over the quoting thing. I'm never going to stop; it's part of my social media expression style and I'm keeping it.
Peggy Dryden - Keep proving how racist you actually are with your ridiculous comments Muhammad. You are so far off the mark it's ridiculous.
Jay Mac - How about this one, Peggy?
[jay mac]
Ken Krueger - I did Chris Ray! And it's thanks to you and your patience to see commonality first.
Ken Krueger - Chris Ray ^^^
Muhammad Rasheed - Peggy Dryden wrote: "Keep proving how racist you actually are with your ridiculous comments Muhammad."
Aren't you siding with the crowd that are glad the white cop slaughtered the unarmed black teen? Please stop projecting on me. (again)
Salaam Thompson - Yeah I coulda swore I saw that spreadsheet SOMEwhere!
Hank Mansfield - //www.youtube.com/watch?v=yu_9eQXlsVQ
Peggy Dryden - I am siding with the evidence. Which in this case, did not warrant prosecution of Darren Wilson. It has nothing to do with race for me. But because it does for you, you are unable to see beyond that.
Muhammad Rasheed - Really? Are you still link bombing, Hank?
Muhammad Rasheed - Peggy Dryden wrote: "I am siding with the evidence."
Apparently not, unless this is an admission of having extremely poor report reading skills?
Peggy Dryden - Sorry if you misunderstood the comment about your racist ridiculous comments - I meant the ones directed at me.
Muhammad Rasheed - Peggy Dryden wrote: "Which in this case, did not warrant prosecution of Darren Wilson."
Explain why based on what the report said.
Peggy Dryden - Did you read it????
Muhammad Rasheed - I'm testing you.
Go.
Peggy Dryden - Is ANYONE prosecuting him besides the media and you?
Hank Mansfield - Muhammad wrote :
Really? Are you still link bombing, Hank?
Muhammad Rasheed - Answer the question, please.
Hank Mansfield - Muhammad wrote:
Answer the question,please.
Muhammad Rasheed - lol
Hank Mansfield - Muhammad wrote:
Peggy Dryden - I am not the one who needs to be tested. Did you read the report? It sounds like you couldn't have if you are asking that question.
Muhammad Rasheed - Okay, I'll bite: Hank, please tell me how that youtube clip, and that Wiki link supported anything you said. Go.
Peggy Dryden - still haven't said if you read the reports . . .
Muhammad Rasheed - Peggy Dryden wrote: "I am not the one who needs to be tested. Did you read the report? It sounds like you couldn't have if you are asking that question."
I addressed your comment and you chose to ignore it, claiming you hated my quoting posting style, and it distracted you from my substance. lol I explained in the spreadsheets why Ken was wrong in his Peggy-like definitive comments. Now please explain, based on your questionable understanding of the report[s] why Darren Wilson wasn't indicted.
Muhammad Rasheed - Go.
Peggy Dryden - which time?
Hank Mansfield - The youtube clip was supposed to be a scene from Pootie Tang, where's he's in the recording studio expressing himself.
He turns all the settings to zero, and then get's in front of the mic and emotes without making a sound.
I think it sums up your style well, as far as saying anything important.
Muhammad Rasheed - Peggy Dryden wrote: "which time? "
From the recent breaking news of the Holder teams' findings.
Muhammad Rasheed - [stopped reading @ pootie tang]
Muhammad Rasheed - [in the future I'm going to stop reading @ "Hank"]
Peggy Dryden - Again, if you had actually read the reports, or listened to Eric Holder, you would be able to answer that question for yourself. Darren Wilson is not being indicted by DOJ or by St. Louis County.
Muhammad Rasheed - Why?
Muhammad Rasheed - Why isn't he?
Peggy Dryden - Why didn't you read them? I have no idea
Muhammad Rasheed - Is it because the evidence proved he wasn't a racist like you and Ken said?
Ken Krueger - Oh for crap's sake, Muhammad....
"Glad the white (sic) cop slaughtered the unarmed black (sic) teen?"
Yeah, there was a big party here in St. Louis the night it happened.
Free crackers and Chuck Taylor's. Yippee
Hank Mansfield - http://townhall.com/.../what-chris-rock-said-about...
Then listen to the man himself, he's not white so it's OKAY.
Muhammad Rasheed - What did the report actually say about why they couldn't/didn't prosecute.
Peggy Dryden - When did I ever say anything about whether Darren Wilson was a racist or not?
Peggy Dryden - Projecting again . . .
Muhammad Rasheed - Ken Krueger wrote: "Oh for crap's sake, Muhammad.... Yeah, there was a big party here in St. Louis the night it happened."
I 100% expect both Hank and Peggy to celebrate such a thing. But they are your friends, not mine.
Peggy Dryden - Yeah Ken… the only media that covered that party was Fox, so no one saw it
Peggy Dryden - so now you're upset cause you don't have any friends?
Hank Mansfield - Muhammad wrote:
What did the report actually say about why they couldn't/didn't prosecute.
Use proper punctuation. "There's a lad"
Muhammad Rasheed - Peggy Dryden wrote: "so now you're upset cause you don't have any friends?"
WOW. That was a hell-of-a-leap. Parkour...?
Muhammad Rasheed - Hank Mansfield wrote: "Use proper punctuation."
Do you really want to open the door on a petty typo war? Seriously?
Muhammad Rasheed - Is that all you have?
Muhammad Rasheed - (#apples")
Peggy Dryden - Not as high as accusing me of being racist. But whatever.
Muhammad Rasheed - You ARE a racist, Peggy. Don't be ashamed of it NOW all of a sudden.
Own that shit!
Peggy Dryden - Because you said so?
Muhammad Rasheed - Because that's what you are defending, sweetheart.
Peggy Dryden - How?
Muhammad Rasheed - Ah. So you DIDN'T read the reports. Okay.
I'll explain...
Peggy Dryden - Funny. But the report from DOJ on the Brown shooting is pretty clear. There isn't evidence to prosecute Wilson for anything.
Hank Mansfield - So let it be written, so let it be done.
A quote from Metallica.
Link bomb that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXWq3f01e2U
Muhammad Rasheed - HANK, DAMN YOUR OILY HIDE!
Muhammad Rasheed - Quit it!
Peggy Dryden - Go ahead and explain the law to me. This could be fun.
Ken Krueger - Why he wasn't indicted? Which time are we talking about?
St. Louis County didn't because a Grand Jury heard evidence and decided it wasn't warranted. Then a bunch of shit got burned up.
And I saw a mention further up about bombs. You talking about the Black Panther guys or the Muslim guys? It's been busy here,
Muhammad Rasheed - The foundation of Darren Wilson's entire defence argument was based on his subjective word of what happened, his integrity as a cop. He and his fellows have the discretion to kill; they can choose not to use deadly force. Wilson's entire story played upon the racist mythical fears of the "Big Scary Black Guy" and you believed him... WANTED to believe him... because you bought into that myth as well. You dismissed out of hand the idea that this cop, from a police depart with a well-documented racist abusive history against the town's black citizens, was the instigator of the incident, and that the teen was in survival mode for his life.
You, my dear, are a racist.
Peggy Dryden - WOW! You certainly know how to twist things to fit your agenda, no matter how far off base you actually are. You are starting at the wrong point. Wilson didn't need a defense because he was never charged with anything.
Muhammad Rasheed - It was the Grand Jury's task to decide if he wrongly killed that kid.
Muhammad Rasheed - They decided the "Big Scary Black Guy" myth was real.
Muhammad Rasheed - ...the way you do.
Peggy Dryden - Again, the evidence, not supposition or your attempt to paint Wilson as a racist, showed that the shooting was justified. That doesn't mean it wasn't a tragedy. But it wasn't illegal.
Tim Brown - If anyone thinks Holder didn't look at every angle, every possibility that Wilson was guilty, you are kidding yourself. Check Holder's past, he is as racist as they come. People like Holder, Rev. Wright, Rev Al. Sharpton are people our president looks up too. That's right Obama looks to RACISTS for his guidance, especially when it comes to delicate racial matters. What does this say about Obama himself?
Muhammad Rasheed - Peggy Dryden wrote: "Again, the evidence, not supposition or your attempt to paint Wilson as a racist, showed that the shooting was justified."
AGAIN you didn't read the reports. The forensic evidence couldn't prove either way whether Wilson was telling the truth or not; they literally didn't have enough to smash him for it so they were forced to go with the very scant subjective story he presented, and the weak witness testimony.
Peggy Dryden - I read the report. And the grand jury testimony. The forensic evidence proved that Michael Brown had his hand on or near the gun at the time it was fired, inside the vehicle, which disproves Dorian's account of what happened. Brown's DNA was on Wilson's shirt, pants, the vehicle and the gun. But you are ignoring that part. Brown punched Wilson. You are ignoring that part too.
Hank Mansfield - @Ken Krueger.
Revolutionary Communist Party agitators were caught on tape, you may have referred to that and a few comments I made.
http://www.theblaze.com/.../video-communist.../
Peggy Dryden - And the grand jury decided that Wilson was justified, so I'm not sure what the point of your comment about that was.
Muhammad Rasheed - Tim Brown wrote: "That's right Obama looks to RACISTS for his guidance..."
There are few things that sound more insane than when white folk passionately direct the term "racist" at black people because they point out racist wrongs that whites commit on blacks. Who did Holder, Wright and Sharpton lynch, oppress, prosecute, enslave, delegate to the jim crow section, shot and kill at their racist cop discretion,etc.?
Hank Mansfield - I've been making some 'big picture' points about Ferguson and communities like it, but it's like pissing into a hurricane force headwind.
Tim Brown - Muhammad, why are you clinging to the 1% chance Wilson was guilty? Is there a possibility you may just be a tad........... RACIST?
Peggy Dryden - Tim - he already said he was biased, but that it was the fault of the people who insulted him last night . . .
Muhammad Rasheed - Peggy Dryden wrote: "And the grand jury decided that Wilson was justified..."
Noooo, they found that since the victim was dead,a nd their was no other way of discovering the actual truth, they had to go with the cop's story. That's very different.
Peggy Dryden - Are you really delusional or just trying to argue with someone?
Muhammad Rasheed - Tim Brown wrote: "Muhammad, why are you clinging to the 1% chance Wilson was guilty?"
Are you kidding? I thought I was clear that I think he was 100% guilty. Get your game up.
Peggy Dryden - That 100% is only clear to you.
Muhammad Rasheed - Peggy Dryden wrote: "Tim - he already said he was biased, but that it was the fault of the people who insulted him last night..."
To be clear I'm biased against you, and others in this thread because of last night.
Muhammad Rasheed - Peggy Dryden wrote: "That 100% is only clear to you."
I know. You and your fellow racists believe it was at 0%.
Peggy Dryden - I wasn't involved last night. Stop blaming me for what happened last night.
Hank Mansfield - I'm gonna "hit the lights" on this one.
My navel lint needs some attention.
Have fun storming the castle, guys.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB8OvPtf_d0
Peggy Dryden - Reynolds $73.68
Muhammad Rasheed - Peggy Dryden wrote: "I wasn't involved last night. Stop blaming me for what happened last night."
Oh, sorry. Since you were saying crazy stuff I assumed you were part of it. My bad.
Chris Lewis - Is Reynolds down today from the other day? I don't remember..
Peggy Dryden - assuming things. I'm shocked.
Peggy Dryden - I think it's down a little.up over $20 from this time last year
Chris Lewis - I think so.. it was $75. something the other day.
Tim Brown - So after Holder, who was clearly investigating on racial grounds couldn't refute Wilson's innocence, found physical evidence that there was a struggle for Wilson's gun, that it was highly improbable he ever put his hands up and all evidence points to Brown charging Wilson, this is all from the report, by the way, you still believe in Brown. This says a lot about your Muhammad..... A lot.
Muhammad Rasheed - Please shut up, Tim. Nothing you said was reflected in those reports.
Peggy Dryden - So you admit you didn't read the report?
Salaam Thompson - Pardon me but if you're "tempted to being racist" that's a you problem. No one can tempt you to being racist! COME ON!
Chris Lewis - Umm. Yeah, they were reflected in the report Mohammed. WOW Mohammed! o_O
Muhammad Rasheed - Peggy, how could it be " highly improbable he ever put his hands up "when several of the credible witnesses DID see him with his hands up? That would ONLY make sense to someone who enthusiastically wanted a black kid to get shot.
Muhammad Rasheed - I swear you all's racist insanity makes my blood pressure go up...
Chris Lewis - How... PLEASE tell me are we being racist by going by the DOJ results and just stating what it says.. How does that make us racist? How...how...how... Do tell?
Peggy Dryden - Several of which "credible" witnesses? Not any in the DOJ report, which you would know if you actually read it. And why do you again assume that anyone wants a black kid to get shot? I don't like guns, and think too many people have them. But if you actually read the report, you would see the forensics disprove a lot of the witness testimony. Which happens all the time, because eyewitness testimony is extremely unreliable.
Muhammad Rasheed - NOT ONCE have you stated what it says. Like Ken did in the original post, you sure like to make up what you'd like to have happened and pretend it was in the report though.
Peggy opted out of her test so she can go sit down now.
Tim Brown - Muhammad, I see that you see I see right through you. I listened to NPR..... Real right wing news..... Huh? I quoted them and they were quoting the report. The report also said, " many recanted their stories about Brown having his hands up"........ Now why on earth would they recant their stories? Especially when the prosecutor was doing his best to make this a hate crime? Oh, my Muhammad.....
Michael O'Brian - Police brutality and institutional racism are distractions from the real issue which is why is Ferguson Ferguson and Creve Cour Creve Cour when the two municipalities are so close together? Surely there is little difference in the quality of the land, but economically, the two areas couldn't be further apart. Until we as a society are willing to address real economic problems, there will always be places where the poor are contained and such incidents as the Michael Brown shooting will occur.
Also, if a law enforcement officer tells you to do something, do it. If you feel it was unjust you take it up with authorities at a later time. At least you'll still be alive to make the complaint.
Muhammad Rasheed - Peggy Dryden wrote: "But if you actually read the report, you would see the forensics disprove a lot of the witness testimony."
The forensics disproved the testimony of none credible witnesses. Of the credible witnesses it couldn't prove anything one way or another, particularly because of how the forearm can turn in any direction up or down, it wasn't possible to know whether the wound happened in what position. WHY don't you know that, Peggy? Hm?
The forensics proved worthless in the vast majority of the case, and they were forced to go with a subjective story from someone who promoted the "Big Scary Black Guy" myth.
Peggy Dryden - whatever - you keep proving over and over again that you have absolutely no idea what was actually in the report, and instead choose to insult and bait people.
Chris Lewis - You're delusional. This whole conversation is RIDICULOUS because YOU have no clue about what's in the report and if you did read it - well.. read it again. Did you hear Eric Holder yesterday when he stated the findings himself?
Peggy Dryden - there is no speculation at all about the first shot, and the forensics in the car, on the gun, or on Wilson's uniform. The speculation with Brown's arms came later. At least if you are going to argue a point, know which point is being argued.
Tim Brown - Muhammad said, "I swear you all's racist insanity makes my blood pressure go up..." I'll take a straw poll here, how many of us racist would have demanded Wilson be locked up FOREVER, if the made up stories were true? I would, who else?
Muhammad Rasheed - No, you wouldn't have.
Peggy Dryden - If any of the claims were close to being true, they could lock him up and throw away the key.
Muhammad Rasheed - You would've accused Holder of lying and prosecuting an innocent white hero.
Muhammad Rasheed - And blamed Obama for it.
Peggy Dryden - projecting again? so unlike you
Muhammad Rasheed - Peggy Dryden wrote: "If any of the claims were close to being true, they could lock him up and throw away the key."
They would've gave him a paid vacation to hawaii and a cushy job somewhere. And apologized for hassling him.
Muhammad Rasheed - I know I'm pushing the right buttons whenever you type "projecting."
Stings, doesn't it?
Chris Lewis - Definately Tim.. I would have ... their ARE bad cops out there and they should be dealt with accordingly.
Muhammad Rasheed - Quit being a racist and you won't feel that way.
Muhammad Rasheed -
bad cops = cops that shoot pets; cops that harass whites
good cops = cops that use their discretion to slaughter black teens
good cops = cops that use their discretion to slaughter black teens
Chris Ray - Salaam, that was almost comical. "Tempted to being racist." Maybe I should cite the guns pulled on me by the trusted police as evidence of my temptation.
Tim Brown - Oh yes I would Muhammad. I don't look at issues blurred by racists thoughts. I look at them very clearly. Holder found out pretty much what they said all along. I really never thought he would find anything different. Based on Brown's record and his actions that day I was pretty sure Wilson's story was true and Brown was the aggressor. They even got someone saying Brown charged Wilson on a cell phone recording. It's time, actually past time to stop walking on eggshells. "The chickens came home to roost".
Chris Lewis - So you think that's the way I think? You are wrong... I will leave it at that.. once again.. if you truly feel I think that way that is your problem not mine.
Chris Ray - Hank, though I'm not reading through most of your links, I've seen your big picture statements. It's not all on deaf ears.
Muhammad Rasheed - Tim Brown wrote: "Oh yes I would Muhammad."
Dude. Stop. It's me.
Muhammad Rasheed - Tim Brown wrote: "Holder found out pretty much what they said all along."
What WHO said, Tim? What Holder actually found was not enough physical data to prosecute a man that killed a teen because he wanted to.
Muhammad Rasheed - Because he was black.
Muhammad Rasheed - What Holder found in his greater investigation was a corrupt police force, of a corrupt local government, that had been abusing its citizens along racial lines for decades. Yet you lot magically believe it unlikely that Wilson (whose girlfriend was a KKK affilitate!) killed that kid because he was abusing that community LIKE. EVERY. ONE. ELSE.
Muhammad Rasheed - smh
Muhammad Rasheed - What else can explain your weird way of seeing what the reports revealed other than you being racist?
Muhammad Rasheed - You want to instinctually cover over the white cop’s faults, while playing up nonexistent criminal traits within this boy because you WANT to believe this racist foolishness. You want to.
And you're actually angry at me because I refuse to, and see the reports -- and the incident in question -- for what it actually was. What Holder saw it as, but was helpless to bring Wilson to justice for, was because of what was MISSING.
Tim Brown - This is a dead horse. The facts are in, Wilson was telling the truth, period. If he didn't Holder would have zeroed in on it. That's what he was looking for, after all. Obama and Holder were guilty of hyping up the situation, causing the riots to be even worse. I am sure Holder and Obama were both very let down that they were wrong. All the burning, looting and violence over lies.
Tim Brown - Let us not forget why Obama sent Holder..... Because Brown was black.
Chris Lewis - Mohammed=hypocrite... you complain about the racial profiling of blacks..but out of the other side of your mouth you racial profile whites.. good bye... I am done with this insanity.
Muhammad Rasheed - Tim Brown wrote: "This is a dead horse."
Quite. Racists tend to double-down on their racism. "Because Brown was black" indeed...
Tim Brown wrote: "The facts are in, Wilson was telling the truth, period."
That's not what the reports show. They show that the subjective opinion of Wilson couldn't be proved either way, and because it was all they had, they had no choice but to go with that.
Somehow racists interpret it as "The full 100% true account. Period." because insanity.
Tim Brown - Muhammad = Racist. Good day, I'm done with this insanity too.
Peggy Dryden - so we prosecute Wilson because Muhammad claims his girlfriend was a KKK affiliate . . . that's solid evidence right there . . .
Muhammad Rasheed - Chris Lewis wrote: "...you complain about the racial profiling of blacks..."
When? Oh, when Chris said it? Do we all look alike?
Wow. You're not even trying...
Peggy Dryden - Holder may be a lot of things, but helpless isn't one of them
Muhammad Rasheed - Peggy Dryden wrote: "so we prosecute Wilson because Muhammad claims his girlfriend was a KKK affiliate"
We prosecute Wilson because he attacked and killed an innocent black teen, but thanks for playing.
Peggy Dryden - Wilson didn't attack anyone. And Brown wasn't innocent.
Muhammad Rasheed - lol
Muhammad Rasheed - jesus wept...
Peggy Dryden - And the whole incident had ZERO to do with race. But keep trying
Jay Mac - The 100% truth!
A lack of evidence 100% supports Wilson's fantasy of fighting the big black Incredible Hulk.....
Muhammad Rasheed - Okay. Peggy and Tim are idiots, and I've actually managed to run out of patience. I'm done.
Chris Lewis - Yaawwwnnn.. you're just boring at this point. For the last time goodbye hypocrite.
Muhammad Rasheed - ^Who are you again...?
Muhammad Rasheed - Were you supposed to be part of the discussion?
Gene Guzman - Muhammad, all that matters in your world is that a black "kid" was killed by a white "racist" cop. In that world, you will forever be a subject of the state, propping up the psychos who keep you under their thumb. I wish you luck, you're going to need it!
Muhammad Rasheed - What?
Muhammad Rasheed - Oh. "Guzman."
That's like a "Zimmerman," right? Okay.
Peggy Dryden - But who is name-calling? Still you. No valid argument so you resort to that. Figures.
Peggy Dryden - Still waiting for you to explain the law to me ...
Muhammad Rasheed - lol Right. My argument isn't valid, yet you never once even tried to counter it. You just got the vapors. mmHM.
Tim Brown - I'm an idiot? Im sorry I had to chime in, I was done but I am bored. Gene Guzman summed you up perfectly. If this story was exactly the same except the races were opposite you wouldn't give a crap Muhammad and I would still be on the side of the cop. There's the difference.
Peggy Dryden - I countered whatever you said. Still not clear what you are trying to argue since you can't seem to grasp reality
Muhammad Rasheed - Peggy Dryden wrote: "Still waiting for you to explain the law to me..."
???
Based on what? I told you I was going to use the info in the reports to explain the nature of your racism and why it was so. Where did you find "explain the law" at?
Peggy Dryden wrote: "I countered whatever you said."
When you keep claiming not to know what I said? How'd you do that?
Muhammad Rasheed - Tim Brown wrote: "I'm an idiot?"
Yes.
Do I need to fashion a spreadsheet from your claptrap, too?
Ken Krueger - "’Guzman.’ That's like A ‘Zimmerman,’ right?”
Muhammad Rasheed - Tim Brown wrote: "Gene Guzman summed you up perfectly."
Multilingual, eh? Impressive.
Peggy Dryden - I know what you said. It just doesn't make sense. And no you didn't explain anything. You accused people of being racist because they don't agree with you. Still not a valid argument.
Muhammad Rasheed - (i know, ken. i cracked myself up at least)
Muhammad Rasheed - (you know it was funny)
Muhammad Rasheed - Peggy Dryden wrote: " I know what you said. It just doesn't make sense. And no you didn't explain anything. You accused people of being racist because they don't agree with you. Still not a valid argument."
Right. You ignore my actual argument to only pretend indignation at my fluff.
Cowardly and typical. This must be "Beth's" other account.
Randy Dolph Lowry - Muhammad wrote: "Yet you lot magically believe it unlikely that Wilson (whose girlfriend was a KKK affilitate!) killed that kid because he was abusing that community."
A. If I was her I'd sue you for defamation because the ridiculous claim you make in that statement demonstrates your ignorance.
B. Why anyone would continue to engage with a race-baiting, uninformed Jerk-Off like this is beyond explanation. Jesus! If this guy isn't a buddy of the other Moron that usually shows up in these threads, protected by cyberspace, Jim Evans, than I'm the Tooth Fairy!
Muhammad Rasheed - Randy Dolph Lowry wrote: "If I was her I'd sue you for defamation..."
Oh, shut up. Crikey.
Peggy Dryden - Your actual "argument:" seems to be that you think everyone is a racist except you. The DOJ report speaks for itself, as did the grand jury. You just choose to ignore both.
Randy Dolph Lowry - We commonly refer to guys like you as "Punks."
Muhammad Rasheed - I would be rich as hell if I got bent out of shape and sued one of you racist but sensitive hoes every time I had an argument ...
Peggy Dryden - Again with the name-calling because you have nothing substantive. You keep proving how little you actually know about this entire situation.
Randy Dolph Lowry - And THERE it is! Race-Baiting 101! Like I said; Punk.
Peggy Dryden - Should I be upset that he called me a racist or a hoe?
Randy Dolph Lowry - You shouldn't be upset at all, considering the source.
Peggy Dryden - True. Can't put much stock in any of his opinions . . .
Muhammad Rasheed - Randy Dolph Lowry wrote: "We commonly refer to guys like you as 'Punks.'"
What a coincidence. I commonly refer to (guys?) like you as racist pricks.
I guess this makes us blood brothers? I don't know how these clubs work...
Peggy Dryden - Everyone is racist except you, right?
Randy Dolph Lowry - Have to admit. I'm chuckling a bit now.
Muhammad Rasheed - Peggy Dryden wrote: "Should I be upset that he called me a racist or a hoe?"
I'd be surprised if you knew what the latter was. That kind of slang is below your station, right?
Peggy Dryden - which station would that be? since you seem to think you know all about me . . .
Muhammad Rasheed - Peggy Dryden wrote: "Everyone is racist except you, right?"
I'm very racist. I actually can't stand it when whites shoot unarmed black teens.
Muhammad Rasheed - Or lynch 'em. Or enslave 'em. Or genocide entire nations, and yet somehow convince themselves that "The Scary Big Black Guy" is the true threat in the world.
Ken Krueger - I've got to believe there's just random provocation at this point.
If this is all we're going to do, I'll pull the thread.
Peggy Dryden - If that isn't what it is, then he definitely needs more help than he can get on FB
Randy Dolph Lowry - NO!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's just now getting interesting! 200+ comments later!
Muhammad Rasheed - ^Offended.
Muhammad Rasheed - Officially. >:(
Muhammad Rasheed - Randy Dolph Lowry wrote: "If I was her I'd sue you for defamation..."
Oh, shut up. Crikey.
Peggy Dryden - Your actual "argument:" seems to be that you think everyone is a racist except you. The DOJ report speaks for itself, as did the grand jury. You just choose to ignore both.
Randy Dolph Lowry - We commonly refer to guys like you as "Punks."
Muhammad Rasheed - I would be rich as hell if I got bent out of shape and sued one of you racist but sensitive hoes every time I had an argument ...
Peggy Dryden - Again with the name-calling because you have nothing substantive. You keep proving how little you actually know about this entire situation.
Randy Dolph Lowry - And THERE it is! Race-Baiting 101! Like I said; Punk.
Peggy Dryden - Should I be upset that he called me a racist or a hoe?
Randy Dolph Lowry - You shouldn't be upset at all, considering the source.
Peggy Dryden - True. Can't put much stock in any of his opinions . . .
Muhammad Rasheed - Randy Dolph Lowry wrote: "We commonly refer to guys like you as 'Punks.'"
What a coincidence. I commonly refer to (guys?) like you as racist pricks.
I guess this makes us blood brothers? I don't know how these clubs work...
Peggy Dryden - Everyone is racist except you, right?
Randy Dolph Lowry - Have to admit. I'm chuckling a bit now.
Muhammad Rasheed - Peggy Dryden wrote: "Should I be upset that he called me a racist or a hoe?"
I'd be surprised if you knew what the latter was. That kind of slang is below your station, right?
Peggy Dryden - which station would that be? since you seem to think you know all about me . . .
Muhammad Rasheed - Peggy Dryden wrote: "Everyone is racist except you, right?"
I'm very racist. I actually can't stand it when whites shoot unarmed black teens.
Muhammad Rasheed - Or lynch 'em. Or enslave 'em. Or genocide entire nations, and yet somehow convince themselves that "The Scary Big Black Guy" is the true threat in the world.
Ken Krueger - I've got to believe there's just random provocation at this point.
If this is all we're going to do, I'll pull the thread.
Peggy Dryden - If that isn't what it is, then he definitely needs more help than he can get on FB
Randy Dolph Lowry - NO!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's just now getting interesting! 200+ comments later!
Muhammad Rasheed - ^Offended.
Muhammad Rasheed - Officially. >:(
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