Danny Hellman - It Wasn’t the Russians: Hillary Lost Because She Blew Off Sanders and His Voters
Danny Hellman - Dave Lindorff: "Leaving aside the reality that there is no evidence that Russian government hackers did obtain those emails and handed them over to Wikileaks to release during the last weeks of the campaign (the evidence is really that they were obtained by insider leaks, not by Russian hackers, the truth is that mounting evidence of Clinton corruption and of cheating in the primaries led millions of furious Sanders backers to decide they would never vote for Clinton.
"The 'false news' about Russians hacking US democracy, pushed by the Clinton campaign, sclerotic Democratic Party leadership, elements within the intelligence establishment and the Obama administration and parroted endlessly by the corporate media and by normally sentient liberals usually quick to condemn “conspiracy thinking,” doesn’t bode well for any real effort to wrench the Democratic Party away from its thoroughly discredited corporatist political stance, and raises the prospect of further Republican gains in the coming off-year Congressional elections in 2018."
Bryan Leggo - So what the emails contained mattered more to some people than who provided them? There's no place in American politics for people like that. They are a disgrace to robotic, reflexive blind partisanship.
Kathleen Flannery - So true: "It’s becoming increasingly clear that the only way forward is going to have to be an abandonment of the Democratic Party by progressives and its replacement by a genuine progressive socialist party that is clearly of and for working people, and for those who cannot find work in this increasingly dystopic America."
Daniel T. Ballard - Ladies and gentlemen "DUH!"
Danny Hellman - What's weird is that some people knew this a year ago, while others still refuse to accept it.
Steven Robles - I think that the DNC hustled Bernie. There was no way he could win against a "true politician". I think they'd hoped to attract more young voters to the Dem side with Bernie, then just absorb them once he was out of the race. Talk about your all time backfires! Their horrible campaign strategies and dismissal of Bernie supporters (in their basements) blew it for them. The populists went to Trump and a lot of the others just didn't vote in the general. Hubris.
Reuben Ames Avery - just watch them shove hillary down our throat again in 2020. fucking hell.
Danny Hellman - Nah, that would be suicide. 2016 was the DNC's best shot at shoving Hillary down our throats, and it backfired on them.
Colin Jorgensen - Don't underestimate the stupidity.
Danny Hellman - I guess if Charley Manson manages to stay alive until 2020, and the media can secure him the GOP nomination, maybe Hillary will get another shot. ;)
Reuben Ames Avery - "that would be suicide, they'd never do that".. seem to recall hearing alot of this in the leadup to the last primary
Peter S. Conrad - @Danny Hellman... Jeez stop flogging this
Beth Moore-Love - Why should he? When the msm wont stop flogging us all into a WWIII with Russia?
Chris Wozniak - I predicted that would happen, for that reason, before the election even happened. No one listens to me.
Danny Hellman - I'm sorry, what?
Chris Wozniak - When Hillary was running against Sanders, I told everyone that they needed to get behind Bernie because Hillary didn't stand a chance against Trump. Bernie supporters won't support her and Trump will wind up crushing her. No one listened.
Kurt Beaulieu - She still won the popular vote...
Raff Fahqu Hall - Half the country didn't vote because she was so "popular" as a cheat
Danny Hellman - She won the popular vote by three million in a country of 320 million. Voters stayed home in droves.
Muhammad Rasheed - *Ahem*
Investigative Reporter Greg Palast Breaks Down Voter Suppression, Rigging and Fraud
Danny Hellman - Fuck Greg Palast.
Cops Gun Down un-Armed Journalist’s Career LA Times fires Ted Rall – evidence blows up in newspaper’s face
Muhammad Rasheed - I don't get it. What is this article saying that makes you hate Palast?
Danny Hellman - I'll try to make this as brief as possible: ted Rall, (a shitty cartoonist with whom I have some history) got fired by LA Times for lying about the details of a jaywalking ticket he received in 2001. Rall is presently suing LA Times for wrongful termination, libel etc, and has concocted a far-fetched fairy tale about the Times and LAPD colluding to silence him. I've been following the story closely, and as far as I'm concerned, it's clear that Rall's lying. The fact that Greg Palastwent to bat for this notorious bullshit artist makes me suspicious of Palast's journalism.
Muhammad Rasheed - I read the article, and the hard facts that have Palast supporting Rall in this incident are linked to an actual police tape that reveals the cops were the ones lying.
By contrast, I don't understand what you are using to make your case that Rall is the one who is lying, when the professional investigative journalist admits he has actual evidence that swayed him.
Muhammad Rasheed - Hillary "lost" because the GOP cheated using that 'Crosscheck" voter suppression scam to target and throw away millions of minority Democrat ballots. Period.
Bryan Leggo - "Period" never wins an argument. Period.
And no, that's not why she lost the rust belt. That kind of voter suppression, especially in the south, was in place for Obama, too, and he won over those same rust belt voters. Her campaign sucked, she's untrustworthy and she deserved to lose.
Muhammad Rasheed - The facts of history are on my side of the topic, hence the "Period." lol
Empty but passionate rhetoric doesn't win the argument when up against facts. Obama's rockstar numbers enabled him to overcome the voter suppression scam (barely) so they simply increased the force of the scam by 2016.
Reuben Ames Avery - that's absurd. you need to back way up, way back to the state governments and get yourself familiar with voter districts and how meticulously these have been (re)defined over the past few decades. Then there's the Electoral College and how that whole fuckery works. Followed by calculated disenfranchisement, no "vote fraud" is even needed.. Indeed, it would be a very hard ruse to pull off without being promptly discovered and having to deal with all that mess.
Muhammad Rasheed - "That's absurd" means nothing when you aren't read up on the facts of the case. Nothing you typed aligns to what they actually pulled off.
Go read up on it, then come back and try again.
Reuben Ames Avery - uh ok whatever bruh keep believing what you want to believe
Bryan Leggo - Muhammad wrote: "Obama's rockstar numbers enabled him to overcome the voter suppression scam (barely)"
Good fanboy. But no, after 8 years of no significant improvement in their lives they lost faith in BHO (as we all should) and didn't want HRC who ran as his legacy. IOr are you not aware of what a hugfe failure he was?
"so they simply increased the force of the scam by 2016."
Sure, why not. No evidence of that buty let' just say it anyway.
Muhammad Rasheed - lol smh. Doubling down on the part that means nothing, huh? Fascinating.
What else do you have?
Bryan Leggo - lol and "go read up"... more persuasive arguments.
Reuben Ames Avery - well, we have a fool who'd rather believe he's so special and important that there would be forces lined up against him to "suppress his vote"
Muhammad Rasheed - Bryan's "But no" versus the GOP's Interstate Crosscheck scam = lol
Reuben Ames Avery - because your name is muhammed, "help me i'm being oppressed"?
Muhammad Rasheed - I am special and important, hence the conservatives pulling out the old voter suppression tactics from the 1870s. Apparently I never stopped being special & important, amirite?
Muhammad Rasheed - Empty but passionate rhetoric does not defeat the facts, gents.
Try harder. What else do you have?
Reuben Ames Avery - it's incredible to me how so many are in such a state of shock and outrage over trump's rise to presidency. haven't any of you dickheads been paying the slightest amount of attention for the past 10-15 years?
Muhammad Rasheed - "Rise to presidency?" Is that how you interpret "blatant cheating?"
Curious.
Reuben Ames Avery - @Muhammad Rasheed... what facts?
Muhammad Rasheed - The ones you ignored. See the link I posted for Danny above.
Muhammad Rasheed - *waits for you to pretend you watched the clip*
Muhammad Rasheed - lol Youse guys...
Reuben Ames Avery - @Muhammad Rasheed... sorry but you sound alot like Karl Rove/Josh Bolton in your argument
Muhammad Rasheed - I love it when people literally step over supporting evidence links to ask "what facts" and say I "have no evidence."
#adorbs
Muhammad Rasheed - It's so cute when they pretend to be smart debaters! awww...
Reuben Ames Avery - You're somewhere around 25-28 I'm guessing, Muhammed. By the time you hit puberty, Rush Limbaugh was well established. Got a few more miles on me than you do young man, why all the anger?
Muhammad Rasheed - Making stereotypical flip comments about my [misspelled] name while oddly accusing me of being angry? I think it may be time for some 'alt-right' bingo! :D
Muhammad Rasheed - YAAAAY!!!
Reuben Ames Avery - eh screw you you're just a dumb fuck reactionary "my feels" kind of kid
Muhammad Rasheed - Cussing at me and oddly accusing me of emotional reactions while you do it, eh? Is that a yes for 'alt-right' bingo then? You sound like you want to win a game of it so badly! lol
Muhammad Rasheed - smh @ youse guys
Bryan Leggo - No need to debate him. He made a claim that unprecedented voter suppression caused her loss. He has no proof of that and not even Palast claims that. Crosscheck was in place in FL in 2000 and Palast wrote about it then. It wasn't in use in the rust belt, where the Clintons were too stupid to even bother campaigning,.
Rasheed's a lightweight - not worth your time. Or mine.
Muhammad Rasheed - The proof is in the investigative reporter's link that you keep ignoring, Mr. 'alt-right' #2. hahahahahaha
Muhammad Rasheed - lol @ youse guys
Muhammad Rasheed - #Adorbs Please don't ever change. :)
Muhammad Rasheed - I swear I can set my watch by youse guys. *glee*
Reuben Ames Avery - well, this country is chock full of fools like you, and that's why it keeps on churning just as designed
Reuben Ames Avery - go on and be mad and rave on about voter suppression and how everyone's racist because you're named Muhammad. the system. won't. give. a. flying. fuck.
Muhammad Rasheed - Ah. So in the 'alt-right' universe, I'm the fool despite you deliberately ignoring evidence links while saying I don't have any evidence.
Curious. lol
I do believe that's B-I-N-G-O!!! Congrats, Reub!!
Muhammad Rasheed - (or is it "rube...?)
Muhammad Rasheed - Rube-O, if the system didn't give a F*ck, then they wouldn't have pulled out those 1870 voter suppression scams again, would they?
Try harder, please. There's a lad.
Reuben Ames Avery - why do we have Trump in the white house? Because the signal to noise ratio of fuckheads like this guy going on about voter suppresion, racism, and LGBQT+ issues. Meanwhile, in reality, it was pretty much a slam dunk for Trump.
Reuben Ames Avery - and now "impeach! impeach! impeach!"... and what do any of you know about then your next president Mike Pence
Muhammad Rasheed - It's weird how you sound angrier than I do, but I'm the one that had his vote suppressed. Why is that?
Are you mad because your scam is revealed and you're not clever enough to cover it up on your own to support your cheating team? awww... #adorbs
Reuben Ames Avery - you're so special, just such a special snowflake, what the fuck do you know
Bryan Leggo - Only a simpleton could think I'm alt-right.
Muhammad Rasheed - lol It sure didn't take you two long to display it.
Bryan Leggo - If we WERE to take Palast seriously and literally, he said the same thing about Bernie in the primaries, that voting irregularities allowed her to steal it from him so I guess she didn't deserve to be the candidate in the general in the first place. I guess losing to Trump is just karma then and we shouldn't care WHY she lost at all.
Muhammad Rasheed - Sanders was an outsider that tried to usurp the Demo party for his own agenda (the way Ron Paul tried to do the GOP in '08), and the real Dems fought back. He deserved it.
Bryan Leggo - Ah.. a brainless Hilbot. That explains a lot. So Palast is a great source for you when he says HRC was robbed but not when he says Bernie was. That's a pretty impressive display of hypocrisy.
BTW, Bernie is one of only 2 or 3 REAL Democrats, i.e. FDR style Dems. HRC is the corporate DLC sell-out who loves war. She's exactly the kind of reason why Dems have steadily lost seats at every level for Obama's 8 inept years in office, Bill ruined the party and BHO was a nothingburger who expanded the wars and internal spying. Some Dem.,
Muhammad Rasheed - Palast wanted Sanders to win, so he leaned that way. The Dems did use the same tactics to fight his usurpation attempt though. They were just right to do it. The GOP were throwing away minority Demo ballots, and that's evil.
Bryan Leggo - Votes WERE suppressed in NC in 2016 just as they were in 2012, 2008, 2004 and 2000. Too bad her losing because of the rust belt makes that less relevant.
Bryan Leggo - Time to make the pro corruption pro-war hypocritical Hilbot go away. Since he thinks a return to FDR is "usurpation" (no doubt a very big word for him) I see he'll have nothing to offer in the future, either. Buh bye.
Bryan Leggo - One final comment: The ONLY candidate who consistently spoke out multiple times about voter suppression and gerrymandering was Bernie Sanders. He still is - in fact just the other day. HRC was AWOL on that, although she had dozens of other excuses for her loss including Russians.
Beth Moore-Love - Sanders tried to usurp the real democrats? What, you mean the ones who voted to get us into the Iraq war and bailed out the banks instead of us? The real democrats who remove leftist presidents and replace them with brutal right wing dictators?
Muhammad Rasheed - The banks were bailed out because the Federal Reserve Act says that we HAVE to bail them out. That contract, signed in 1913, says that they get to do whatever they want with our money, and we must bail them out when they overextend and create a bubble/recession/depression.
It will take a war in DC itself to stop that monster.
Beth Moore-Love - You mean the way FDR did in 1933? Geez! Another "his hands were tied" excuse. Were his hands also tied when he placed Monsanto lobbyists all over the FDA and DOA?
Muhammad Rasheed - The last POTUS that tried to unplug the Fed monster was shot in the head in Dallas. No one is trying to mess with that trillion dollar gravy train.
Beth Moore-Love - My father was a goddamn gunnery sargeant in Vietnam. I didnt vote for a fucking coward to hide behind the drapes of the oval office and hand this country over to corporate fascists as he has done.
Muhammad Rasheed - Every single Federal Gov Admin since JFK has been that coward then.
Muhammad Rasheed - Why only get mad about it now?
Bryan Leggo - Blaming the GOP for Obama's numerous failures is boilerplate excuse making.
Besides Monsanto - there was Summerites running the economy, letting off Bush war criminals and Wall Street criminals who crashed the economy, and expanding to 7 war fronts, vastly expanded droning, NSA expansion and intrusion, destroying Libya, prosecuting whistleblowers and diminishing transparency - all things he did UNILATERALLY without any GOP involvement, not that they would have objected to any of it. Most of that was THEIR agenda, too. He's GOP Lite, something that narrow Dem loyalists simply can't process. Too much cognitive dissonance to face those facts.
They also had the votes for single payer. BHO undercut it. He never really supported after 2003 when it was easy for him to claim it.
Not even dignifying the JFK excuse.
Muhammad Rasheed - Why are you skipping over Bush's failure to single out the faux-failures of Obama?
Bryan Leggo - Because I'm not talking to a Bush fanboy. I'm talking to an Obot/Hilbot. And none of what I listed was "faux". You just can't handle it. I worked against Bush, too.
Muhammad Rasheed - No, not a single thing you typed was real. GOP talking points are always idiotic. The one thing you said that was interesting that we potentially COULD agree on, you suddenly pretended wasn't a thing.
Muhammad Rasheed - Are you pro-fed reserve now magically because you saw I'm against it? lol
But you call ME the 'bot.'
Bryan Leggo - If you think Monsanto there was Summerites running the economy, letting off Bush war criminals and Wall Street criminals who crashed the economy, and expanding to 7 war fronts, vastly expanded droning, NSA expansion and intrusion, destroying Libya, prosecuting whistleblowers and diminishing transparency weren't real then you're too big of an idiot to engage further. None of those are GOP talking points. They're things the GOP LIKE, you moron.
GOP talking point would be Benghazi and Fast and Furious and too many Golf trips and Muslim foreign born.
I didn't mention the Fed at all. I just dismissed your silly conspiracy theory.
Muhammad Rasheed - Did you think copy/pasting your idiotic GOP talking points would somehow make them real this time? #adorbs just like a 2 yr old! awww...
Muhammad Rasheed - Look up "political talking point" and come back. lol
Muhammad Rasheed - Then re-read that idiotic nonsense you have on speed dial & compare. ;)
Bryan Leggo - @Muhammad Rasheed... Not one of which you could refute. And you';re over-using the shallow adorbs. Find a new deflection.
Muhammad Rasheed - You're the one that refused to refute my Palast points and started cussing at me while saying I was emotional, right?
Ah.
#adorbs #awwww #HeThinksHesPeople
Bryan Leggo - I dealt with Palast and your hypocrisy in using him HALF of the time.
Muhammad Rasheed - You literally ignored everything he actually found in favor of your empty but hella passionate rhetoric about it. #adorbs lol
Beth Moore-Love - Mr. Rasheed, you fail to remember what the GOP talking points were. And werent.
Bryan Leggo - I also dealt with NC suppression vs the rust belt states. Perhaps you have severe reading comprehension problems.
Muhammad Rasheed - Hold my spot, knucklehead. i'll be back.
Don't break anything or get the thread deleted.
Bryan Leggo - I'm going to delete you since you've managed to out-idiot even Dennis Worden.
Muhammad Rasheed - I'll deal with your dumb points one-by-one if you've got the GUTS to read them. :P
Muhammad Rasheed - I'll be back.
Bryan Leggo - BTW, I worked in the NC primaries, especially in Charlotte. I saw how they were run.
Muhammad Rasheed - Oh, good. Then you can confirm all of the GOP voter suppression stuff, and you were just being disingenuous. #IntegrityCheckFailure #NotSurprised
*Bryan & Reuben blocked me from seeing their posts*
Muhammad Rasheed - lol
Terrence Nowicki - Muhammad wrote: "I read the article, and the hard facts that have Palast supporting Rall in this incident are linked to an actual police tape that reveals the cops were the ones lying."
No, this is the opposite of the what the tape reveals. You obviously haven't listened to it.
Muhammad Rasheed - lol
Should I believe the report of one of the few investigative journalists with that rare combination of courage + integrity, or your lying @ss ears? hmmmmm...
Terrence Nowicki - Maybe you could listen to the tape yourself, jerkwad?
Muhammad Rasheed - You listened to it and still walked away with the biased opinion you walked in with, so I'm just gong to go with the report of the professional investigative journalist who is actually trained not to be sloppily subjective like you.
That way I won't have to waste any time listening to a tape that has zero bearing on my life in any way. #Efficiency
Terrence Nowicki - "That way I won't have to waste any time listening to a tape that has zero bearing on my life in any way."
You seem to have wasted quite a bit of time mouthing off despite being relatively ignorant of the topic.
Terrence Nowicki - How about you stick to what you actually know, and shut up when it comes to things you're too lazy to research despite the ready availability of the source material?
Muhammad Rasheed - I'm pretty sure that citing the readily available work of an award-winning, professional investigative journalist, who is known by his peers for being a man of integrity, counts as research. ;)
How about you just continue to believe in the biased subjectivity that you and your buds accept as gospel truth in your self-reinforced circle jerks? As you see, it turns out we're BOTH advocates of sticking to what you know. lol
You have anything real for me there, Terry-O? Or nah?
Steven Ben-Off Abrams - I live in LA, which is as Democratic as get-all, but I met a number of people out here, both young and old, who were turned off by Hillary and the DNC's treatment of Bernie. Kind of fucked up that the Dems fought so hard to shut down Bernie the Left populist, so they could further the career interests of Clinton apparatchiks, and the only real pitch they had was "She's not Donald Trump."
Steven Ben-Off Abrams - I don't know ANY Republicans here in LA (one or two Rand Paul-style Libertarians maybe) - a significant number of liberal Democrats I talked to told me they were seriously tired of the Clintons, and felt Bernie got a raw deal. Not a helpful perception for Democratic leadership to give to their base.
Muhammad Rasheed - I think the leadership had the right to protect the party from an opportunistic outsider attempting to usurp their platform for his own agenda, just as GOP leadership had the right to keep well-known Libertarian-pretending-to-be-a-Republican Ron Paul from doing the same. The wishy-washy Demo fence-sitters who somehow thought the counter-attack was unfair shouldn't count.
Danny Hellman - Yeah, the leadership also has the right to lose catastrophically and fail to learn from their mistakes because piles of cash.
Beth Moore-Love - @Muhammad Rasheed, sounds to me like you've been under the impression that both parties have been doing a fine job, then.
Christoph Knerr - @Muhammad Rasheed... the democratic party is the people in it, not the leadership. If registered democrats want to elect an independent they should be able to. That's what democracy is.
Danny Hellman - Says so in their charter.
Beth Moore-Love - You prefer Trump, Ben Carson or Ted Cruz to Ron Paul, I guess?
Muhammad Rasheed - @Beth & Christoph... The wishy-washy, fence-sitting, uncommitted "members" of the parties, who are jerked around like puppets whenever an outsider tries to take over the parties, shouldn't count. Case in point: All the bitter and pouting Bernie acolytes that ran off to vote for Trump out of spite. That phenomenon by itself means the fence-sitter opinions are not to be trusted.
Christoph Knerr - @Muhammad Rasheed... I see where you stand on democracy. That's fine. Just be more straight forward about it. Your Idea of what the Democratic Party is, maybe the leaderships too is why many true liberals don't come out to vote for democrats unless it's for nostalgia or the lesser of two evils.
Muhammad Rasheed - That post doesn't mean overmuch to me in light of all the voter suppression that's infesting the last several presidential elections, tilting towards GOP interests. Take that evil off the table then the finer points of your message would be worth serious contemplating. As it is, is comes across more like naivete, sprinkled with horse-blinders, and a side of clueless idealism.
Muhammad Rasheed - The Democrats HAVE been coming out, and in enough numbers for the GOP to never win another election again. Voter suppression is the tool that destroyed our democracy. And it's an old tool.
Christoph Knerr - You don't even believe in democracy in your own parties primaries!
Muhammad Rasheed - The voter suppression used to destroy the democratic process is far older than the 2016 Dem primary. Nice horse blinders btw. What is that? Velvet?
Nice.
Beth Moore-Love - The democrats have been coming out? REALLY?
Muhammad Rasheed - "Really."
What does "voter suppression" mean to you, Beth?
Beth Moore-Love - What do you propose? Hillary 2020?
Muhammad Rasheed - The GOP has been throwing away MILLIONS of minority Demo ballots in every election. The elections wouldn't even be close otherwise.
Muhammad Rasheed - Beth Moore-Love wrote: "You prefer Trump, Ben Carson or Ted Cruz to Ron Paul, I guess?"
That newsletter scandal revealed to me that these gents are all the same. I would vote for none of them.
Beth Moore-Love - Did you forget that DWS resigned for it? And that exit polls were off by as much as 15% in some states, each time in Hillarys favor? Or that entire blocks in NYC were scrubbed from the voter rolls?
Muhammad Rasheed - Did "I" forget...?
I'm the only one in here bringing up voter suppression. Why isn't it FIRST in every single political discussion?
Beth Moore-Love - You believe the democratic party wouldnt cheat us, dont you?
Beth Moore-Love - I mean, only nasty republicans would cheat an election, right?
Muhammad Rasheed - When it comes to the very narrow point of the two parties' leadership refusing to allow outsiders to take over -- a take over based 100% on the momentum generated from the manipulation of the ignorant, wishy-washy fence-sitter masses -- then I agree that they should do what they can to prevent it. If the outsiders were TRUE "shake 'em up" figures dedicated to TRUE progress towards our ideals, then that would be a different story, and I'd be mad, too.
Neither Sanders nor Paul had my own best interests at heart. Even the feel of this thread discussion from so-called fellow liberals makes me feel like an ostracized outsider, which of course makes me even more suspicious about Sanders.
Beth Moore-Love - Are you suggesting that cheating an election is okay, as long as your candidate benefits?
Muhammad Rasheed - Should I be concerned that the willful, systemic targeting of minority Democrat ballots by your supposed political rivals, and my active racist enemy, is never brought up by you lot as a serious concern? You want me to be all in my feels over this Sanders thing, but that other item doesn't come up in conversation among you at ALL. lol
How SHOULD that make me feel?
Muhammad Rasheed - The two outsiders were trying to cheat the election, the party leaders also cheated to counter. You only vilify the RESPONSE to the first cheating attempt because the other was what you wanted.
Curious.
Beth Moore-Love - You think the republicans cheated the democratic primaries to get Hillary nominated?
Beth Moore-Love - Oh, now Sanders cheated?
Beth Moore-Love - Is that why he lost? Because he cheated? Lmfao!
Muhammad Rasheed - Beth Moore-Love wrote: "You think the republicans cheated the democratic primaries to get Hillary nominated?"
I said, "...the party leaders also cheated to counter."
Muhammad Rasheed - Meaning the Dem leaders cheated to prevent Sanders from cheating to usurp their party for his agenda.
Muhammad Rasheed - "All's fair in love & war."
Beth Moore-Love - So Sanders was plotting to cheat, so your party beat him to the punch, right?
Muhammad Rasheed - I really don't care about that issue, despite all the super over-hype trying to distract me from the honestly FAR more serious voter suppression that compromised our democratic traditions long, long before.
Odd how you don't care about that though. Are you going to bring up Bernie again... yup. There you go.
Muhammad Rasheed - Sanders cheated by pretending to be a Democrat and running like one, as Ron Paul did before him on the other side of the aisle.
Beth Moore-Love - I mean, he might have cheated them, but actually didnt, so its fine they cheated, eh?
Muhammad Rasheed - You're babbling, Beth.
Beth Moore-Love - You are a moron. Plain as day.
Muhammad Rasheed - You're a racist. Take a bow.
Muhammad Rasheed - That's why you and your cohorts have zero interest in exploring the very race-based voter suppression scam.
Muhammad Rasheed - Thank you for your time. I've collected enough data here.
Peace.
Beth Moore-Love - Yeah, I like peace. Thats why I refused to vote for Hillary or Trump.
Beth Moore-Love - Racist...misogynist...lmfao!
Beth Moore-Love - Im that racist who built a yurt for Standing Rock, delivered it and stayed two weeks in 50 below temps without showers, getting ripe with a bunch of N8tvs and BLM peeps. Truly, thats what racists do, ya know!
Muhammad Rasheed - Right. Because your hippie photo-ops so you can brag about fake credentials on social media is the REAL WORK. lol
You cringe, hide and get defensive when it comes to the active (and very, VERY dangerous) battle to stop the voter suppression scam that has been used to politically disenfranchise Blacks since the 1870s. We'll NEVER see a FB photo-op with Beth Moore-Love fighting THAT monster, amirite? Too scary? It's MUCH safer to stick to the faux-activism and yurt building that you're used to.
Danny Hellman - Everyone who didn't vote for Hillary "They Must Be Brought To Heel" Clinton is a racist.
Danny Hellman - "The Dem leaders cheated to prevent Sanders from cheating to usurp their party for his agenda." What agenda was that? Single payer? $15 minimum wage? Free higher education? An end to endless war?
Muhammad Rasheed - To be clear, ignoring the voter suppression scam, and faux-vilifying the investigative reporter who is busting it open, reveals the racists in your midst. Vote for Sanders as you like, but there are other items on the table that reveal character.
Danny Hellman - "Faux-vilifying?" Palast has repeatedly gone to bat for Ted Rall, who I know FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE to be a liar. For me, that throws the rest of Palast's journalism into doubt.
Muhammad Rasheed - Your embarrassingly biased and clouded personal experience is lying to you, Hellman. Grow up.
Danny Hellman - What's "clouded" about my personal experience?
Muhammad Rasheed - Your beef with Rall does not trump the seriousness of the voter suppression findings. It's INSANE for you to imply as much. Stop it.
Danny Hellman - Funny how a guy who's just called me "insane," "clouded," and "embarrassingly-biased" is telling me to "grow up." First, learn how to argue without clumsily insulting your opponent, THEN I'll consider taking you seriously.
Muhammad Rasheed - lol
You shoved the extremely racist voter suppression under the rug because of your high school beef with some guy, and you think I am concerned whether someone that thinks like that "takes me seriously."
Curious.
Danny Hellman - You know what suppresses voting? An uninspiring campaign.
Muhammad Rasheed - ...and you're still doing it.
"Voter suppression? Meh. BERNIE 4 LIFE!!!"
Muhammad Rasheed - Now I really, REALLY have enough data on you yahoos. I'm OUT!
Peace!
Danny Hellman - Take that data you've collected, mix it with some of that high school beef, and fry yourself up another dumburger.
Beth Moore-Love - I went to jail defending a guy who was racially profiled by cops and almost got roughed up myself, and i would do the same for you, Muhammad Rasheed. No matter who you vote for.
Muhammad Rasheed - I would be more impressed if you had a record of "almost getting roughed up" while actively working to stop voter suppression.
Muhammad Rasheed - With photo documentation.
Muhammad Rasheed - Voter suppression is a major component of systemic racism, while racial profiling is just low-level maintenance of an already corrupt-with-racism system.
Ignoring the one while throwing your efforts behind the other, is the equivalent to ignoring the compound fracture while choosing to instead wipe off the blood with a damp cloth.
Beth Moore-Love - Im not trying to impress anyone. Do you remember Obamas' silence when Troy Davis was murdered by Georgia for a crime he didnt commit? His refusal to pardon Peltier even when the prosecuting attorney recommended him to?
Beth Moore-Love - Do you remember when the mainstream media congratulated white people for rescuing PETS a week after hurricane Katrina, as human bodies still floated in the toxic stew? I DO.
Muhammad Rasheed - What's "PETS?"
Muhammad Rasheed - Obama was by no means silent on the Troy Davis issue, but was working to reform the policies that helped contribute to the tragedy. Of course Jeff Sessions is frantically working to sabotage/destroy all such efforts.
Beth Moore-Love - Pets. Puppers and kitties. Pets. I threw up.
Beth Moore-Love - Mind you, I love animals, but after seeing people dehydrate on rooftops waiting for helicopters that never came...fuck that shit. Pets!
Muhammad Rasheed - No, I don't remember the 'PETS' thing. I just remember how all the Black poor people were being treated as if they deserved the tragedy, and the local whites and the US gov didn't want to help them.
Muhammad Rasheed - I remember that part quite a bit.
I also remember how a Senator Obama was one of the very few people that came to listen to the people themselves to see what could be done to get them what they needed.
Muhammad Rasheed - But, yeah. "PETS."
Beth Moore-Love - Listen, man...im fucking sick of it too. Im 53 years old and tired of the stupid war bucks and the gestapo cops. And its been going on all my life, and all my mother's life. And no matter who sits in the oval office, its the same shit. Same agenda, different faces. My house is a safe house. I dont tolerate fascism, or racist shit in my presence. Im sorry I stooped to insults. Facebook is like a fence between snarling dogs, we say shit we would never say face to face. But I guarantee you, I am working my ass off every day to make a better world in my community, and to put an end to racism. Every day.
Muhammad Rasheed - Thanks. I look forward to the photo documentation.
Beth Moore-Love - No. I am not being manipulated here. I think it should be obvious that I have a strong mind. At a certain point it becomes more intelligent to foster unity rather than continue to enable the divisions that our sham elections cement every four years. And also I am doing my anti racist work as always.
Beth Moore-Love - See how quickly a person can end an acrimonious, nasty debate and turn it around to finding common ground? This is where women excel, as long as they arent just another dick in a dress, like Mags Thatcher and HRC.
Beth Moore-Love - This right here, is what we better learn to get real good at doing, and fast.
Muhammad Rasheed - Voter suppression is a major component of systemic racism, while racial profiling is just low-level maintenance of an already corrupt with racism system.
Ignoring the one while throwing your efforts behind the other, is the equivalent to ignoring the compound fracture while choosing to instead wipe off the blood with a damp cloth.
Beth Moore-Love - Im not going to agree with you just because youre black. If I think youre argument is stupid im going to say so. The same I would say to anyone else.
Muhammad Rasheed - I'm not going to agree with you just because you are a White woman.
I guess we're at an impasse. lol
Beth Moore-Love - Fair enough.
Muhammad Rasheed - Of course you can pick and choose which battles in the greater war you would like to help at, but you don't get to call the people stupid for pointing out that the bigger battles that you didn't choose need more resources.
At this point I'm looking forward to demonstrations of this celebrated "strong mind" you said you have.
Fake Activism versus Real Activism
Opinion: Why I Confronted White Progressive Figures For Racism In Their Commentary
Beth Moore-Love - Confront the Clintons, then.
Muhammad Rasheed - lol Clinton is powerless since the GOP's voter suppression, that White liberals demonstrably (and suspiciously) have zero interest in, made sure she didn't win the presidency.
Muhammad Rasheed - Note that she apologized to the African-American community for her family's past mistakes, and vowed that she would aid in reversing the mass incarceration trend... building upon Obama's crime reformation efforts. Obviously the GOP took that promise personally.
Beth Moore-Love - You believed what a politician said during a campaign?
Muhammad Rasheed - Please note that Obama used his campaign promises as a literal checklist and did everything he could to make them happen. I would rather trust her expressed sincerity to repair wrongs than I do any statements from your idol Sanders.
Beth Moore-Love - I dont idolize politicians. It isnt smart.
Muhammad Rasheed - Did you believe what Sanders said on his campaign trail? Or do I have you confused with one of these others?
Beth Moore-Love - Every single word out of a candidates mouth on the campaign trail is bullshit and not worth listening to. You have to look at their actions. Just as teenage girls are taught to pay no attention to boys promising love when they just want to get laid.
Muhammad Rasheed - Aye. Obama's actions for the past 8 yrs were quite revealing.
Now I want Michelle in office for 2020.
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