Thursday, October 22, 2015
The Ever-Enduring Lowest Class of All
Gary McCoy - Clock Boy Leaving America To Live In Theocratic Authoritarian Slave State
It wouldn't surprise me if he next shows up in a video wearing a stocking mask and holding a knife alongside a hostage on his knees.
James Lindley - Or wearing a clock vest.
Muhammad Rasheed - He'll be alright. Qatar is great. My former Senior Director took a Program Director position in Qatar, under the Q-BOSSS contract, a few months ago.
Lyn Ouvrier - Sorry to barge in, but what was it again? Qatar is great? I've lived in Qatar for nearly three years. And I am telling you, the only great thing in Qatar (and investors will agree, I am sure) is its growing economy. I see no greatness in a country that has no regards for human rights.
Muhammad Rasheed - It's greater than the article was trying to make it out to be, and the human rights are better there than in Kuwait where I was back then. Qatar is a cushy assignment because the local customs are among the least strict in the Muslim World. And women make great progressive strides there, too (they appointed a female cabinet member in the early 2000s).
Lyn Ouvrier - I have to agree that women are more free in Qatar. I've seen it myself. But, I have witnessed a rampant disregard for human rights there, very similar to its neighboring Gulf countries, i.e., slave-like treatments of domestic helps and construction workers, among other things. It's a helpless feeling to watch oppression with your own two eyes, knowing that you have no freedom to rush to those poor people's aid. You wanted to do something but your hands are tied. Tied by the stringent laws that prohibit you to interfere. I lost count how many times I gritted my teeth and cried in frustration. And those were the things that left a lasting impression on my mind.
Muhammad Rasheed - Yes, we saw it in Kuwait, too. But Ahmed Mohamed and his family will not be of the poorly-treated servant class, and will get along just fine there. The tone of the article is misleading at best.
Lyn Ouvrier - Of course, Ahmed can surely expect a special treatment from the Qataris. But Ahmed and his adoring fans mean nothing to me. My concern is for those poorly-treated servant class (bugs me too why modern day slavery is still practiced in this 21st century). No offence meant for you, but I find it so unfair that while Muslims are allowed to voice out against discrimination, etc. in their host countries, other migrants -especially domestic employees from Asian countries- have no voice and less to zero rights in Muslim countries, most especially in the Gulf countries. Doesn't sound fair to me.
Lyn Ouvrier - And btw, I agree with the title of the article. Qatar is still practicing modern day slavery. Therefore, it IS a slave state. Let's call a spade, a spade.
Muhammad Rasheed - I agree. It's a problem that never stopped plaguing humanity. Even the "First World" nations do it.
Lyn Ouvrier - The first world nations still practice modern day slavery? Whoah. That is a huge statement. Care to cite one example? I'm interested.
Muhammad Rasheed - "In its annual Trafficking in Persons Report, released Friday, the State Department acknowledged that trafficking and forced labor still exist in America. The report includes several examples: abuse of third-country nationals trafficked to work on military bases, migrant domestic workers subjected to forced labor by diplomats and international organization personnel, and temporary guest workers in a variety of industries forced to work under horrifying conditions with nowhere to turn. While it's important that the report stresses there's more the U.S. government can do to stem trafficking in America, it offers nothing new and recycles much of its findings and recommendations from past years — recommendations that still haven't been fully implemented."
SOURCE: US Admits Modern-Day Slavery Exists at Home
Muhammad Rasheed - But the point of Gary's article seems to be specifically that Ahmed's family are moving to harsher conditions, and that isn't true. Qatar will be great for them because they are of a moneyed class.
Lyn Ouvrier - Allow me to digest that article for a few minutes.
Muhammad Rasheed - No prob.
Gordon Campbell - I doubt that there is state-condoned slavery or human trafficking in the United States or any non-Islamic nation!
Muhammad Rasheed - Since they know about it, and aren't doing anything about it, that's the very definition of "condoning," Gordon.
Gordon Campbell - The ACLU's definition of slavery and trafficking is agenda-driven twaddle.
Lyn Ouvrier - I was just about to say that too. I checked the report. Most cases were done outside of the US. Those workers deployed to US military bases were processed by agencies ran by Arab Muslims. And in all cases in and outside USA, the human trafficking and forced labor was never condoned by the government. In fact, the report clearly stated, preventive measures were enacted and progress to stop those activities were made. The keyword here is "CONDONE". Everyone can see that the Arab countries are not making efforts to stop modern-day slavery in their countries. In fact, it was even condoned. Case in point is Qatar where employers are allowed to seize and hide their domestic employees' passports and other travel documents so they cannot escape even from maltreatment --even if their lives are in danger. And that's exactly how and why I've met one domestic help there who jumped from a two storey building just to escape her employers who raped her repeatedly. In those cases, the maids ran away and the employers create a cock and bull story against the maid. And because the laws on domestic employees aren't favorable for those maids, they mostly end up deported or jailed.
Muhammad Rasheed - "It is no surprise that the inmate/slave labor force has grown along with mass incarceration in America. The Prison Policy Initiative counts 2.3 million people in prison, according to the 2010 census, by far the highest rate of incarceration in the developed world."
SOURCE: 23 cents an hour: The perfectly legal slavery happening in modern-day America
Lyn Ouvrier - Muhammad, the point here is that, those practices were never condoned by the US government and efforts were made to stop those acts. Furthermore, those ill-fated employees can file a case against their employers. In Arab countries, they can't. In Arabcountries, those acts are condoned. In the USA, they're allowed to protest. YOU are allowed to protest. In the Middle East, you can't. You have no voice. They have no voice. Bottomline is: You're comparing apples to oranges.
Muhammad Rasheed - I'm just calling a spade a spade, Lyn. The practice still exists for people to need to protest, and as the researcher pointed out, the processes and procedures are badly in need of an overhaul, especially in a nation which claims to have a zero tolerance for the violation of human rights.
My point was that everyone is doing it. Naturally it's to varying degrees, but it never stopped happening. Although I am personally grateful that race-based chattel slavery is over in America, but I am not so naïve to believe it can't come back if we are not vigilant. Humans never stop being humans.
Lyn Ouvrier - Point taken. But like I said, and I believe this is what the article is trying to point out, everyone is more free in America than in Qatar or anywhere in the Arab states. That's an irrefutable fact. You, me, everyone has a voice in America. In the Middle East, you will not be able to enjoy those privileges. As for modern-day slavery, the procedures are in need of an overhaul. Acknowledged. And with that acknowledgement comes another acknowledgement: The fact that preventive measures -irregardless of their failures-- do exist. Again, those measures are non-existent in Arab countries.
Muhammad Rasheed - I don't think they are non-existent, because they exist dormant within the very scripture they claim to follow. They just have to fight harder against the corrupt traditionalist systems they live in to achieve our levels of liberty.
Lyn Ouvrier - Experience-wise, I can claim that they do not exist. And I will stand by my statement.
Muhammad Rasheed - Well, I'll agree with you on the surface level. In the practical sense they don't exist since the people themselves aren't giving enough push-back.
Muhammad Rasheed - They exist within their scripture, they just have to fight to take hold of it and force their governments to comply with the Word of God. If they choose to finally commit to that, He will be with them.
Muhammad Rasheed - I hope I'm alive to see such a thing. I got to have an African-American POTUS in my lifetime, so why not? lol
Lyn Ouvrier - I think it's better for both of us to avoid talking about scriptures for two reasons: 1) This is Gary's post and out of respect to him, I don't want to hijack it and discuss about something that is totally irrelevant to the thread. 2) I have a broad understanding of islamic scriptures related to slavery issue and I am sure, as a Muslim, your interpretation of those scriptures differs from mine. We're not on the same page, apparently.
Muhammad Rasheed - 1.) RE: scripture relevance - I'm pretty sure the article Gary linked to has "theocratic" in the title, Lyn.
2.) Are you implying the claim that the One God condones slavery? lol I'm 100% willing to have that discussion with you. Will you accept my FB Friend Request for a friendly "en garde?"
Lyn Ouvrier - Sure. But not here and not now. I am not going to hijack Gary's post and it's midnight now in my timezone. Let's call it a day. Some other time, I will gladly grab your invitation --with pleasure.
Lyn Ouvrier - Oops. I did not read your comment well. Pardon, I am getting sleepy. Re: Friend request. I am sorry, but I can't accept it. I am a straightforward person so, I'll be straight with you. I enjoyed the exchange, but I don't have a single Muslim friend in my friends list and I am not planning to add one today or in the future. We will find a way to have that Islamic debate on slavery one day, don't worry ;) But I have to decline your request and I have to bid you good night too. Have a good night, Muhammad!
Mark Hitsman - Training will go well and he can be infamous bomb maker
James Lindley - Or tester.
Mason Mastroianni - Wow. It's pointless to have a conversation anymore. The headline of the story says it all; we live in the age of divisive media.
He accepted a scholarship at the Qatar Foundation for Education, Science and Community Development.
Way to be part of the problem, guys.
See Also: "What's My Name?!?"