Muhammad Rasheed - I don't think women proposing to men is a good idea in general, just like I don't think men having multiple wives is a good idea in general. Sure there are situations, or the right couple, that can make it work, but I personally suspect that the two genders are hardwired for the man to go after the woman and prove to her that he wants her and will fight for her. I think -- in general, psychologically -- they BOTH need that. If the guy doesn't go after her in that way, and doesn't go through the work to earn her, and bring her into his life through our cultural rituals, then he will have a higher chance of taking her for granted and cheating on her. In certain fundamental situations, it is absolutely not a good idea to hand something valuable to someone without them making SOME effort in proving that they deserve it. This is definitely one of those situations. And really the last thing men need is to have their culturally pre-programmed, patriarchal society sense of entitlement cultivated further by getting this handed to them for free on a silver platter.
As examples, I present Halle Berry's first two marriages. In both cases, it was Halle who went after David Justice and Eric Benét. She said she was a big fan and thought they should be together and the guys agreed. The problem with that is that, during the time period, Halle Berry was one of the It Girls™ of her generation, so her initiative did nothing more than blow these guys' heads up and make them think they were God's Gifts to women on earth. And they promptly acted accordingly, thus, double divorce. That's not to say that women shouldn't praise their men, or let their man know that she thinks he's attractive and such, but there's a way it needs to be done. If you approach some guy in a way that basically amounts to you performing like a lowly handmaiden begging for the attentions of a monarch, you will get your feelings hurt.
Now it's possible that the women proposing to men trend, in catching on, can possibly change the way we are hardwired, and it actually becomes normal. But I think there will be a lot of crushed and broken hearts along the way as the pioneering women use their own lives to change that paradigm.
Lionell D. Parish - Agreed
Akil Fahd - I don't think the two issues should be conflated
Muhammad Rasheed - which two?
Akil Fahd - women proposing to men and men having multiple wives
Muhammad Rasheed - I'm not saying they are the same, just that neither represent an ideal situation. God said it is best to only have one wife, so obviously multiple wives is not the best situation. Women proposing to men isn't a sin, or inherently wrong, I just don't think it is the ideal situation for a desired long-term commitment.
Muhammad Rasheed - Now that you mention it, I suppose it is possible – despite God point blank telling us that one wife is the best situation – that there are many "scholars" and sheikhs and what have you, who love the idea of having multiple wives so much, that they use their abusive religious authority to convince a generation of Muslimahs that it really is a good thing to be a 'sister wife,' creating a bunch of women who go around proposing/begging to be part of some dude's broke harem. If this is the case, which I'm starting to suspect it is, then the two items actually should be conflated and addressed on the same platform.
Akil Fahd - LOL
Jay Mac - The second wises man to ever walk planet earth had 100's and 100's of wives and concubines. And in the end, he came to the conclusion that it was all meaniningless.
He regret that he didn't obey his God...
Muhammad Rasheed - Who was the first wisest?
Jay Mac - Yashua........
Muhammad Rasheed - Why do you think King Solomon the Wise (peace be upon him) didn't obey his Lord?
Jay Mac - He was warned not to get involved with all of those foreign women. He was warned that they would turn his heart away from God. And the more he indulged, the MORE he indulged.
Solomon said that he tried everything under the sun. I don't exactly know what that entails, but I can imagine that there was no sin he didn't try.
LOL!
Muhammad Rasheed - The Qur'an gives a very different account of Solomon's character, and says that he was an upright man of integrity, whose impeccable reputation for high wisdom came directly from his obedience to his Lord. What you describe sounds more like the gossip from rival tribe scribes that made its way into the book.
Jay Mac - Naaaaa.
God blessed Solomon with great wisdom, but even the most wise amoung us can fall prey to sinful desires...
Muhammad Rasheed - Jay Mac wrote: "Naaaaa."
Saying "naaaaa" is like saying "naaaaa" to Yeshua's message confirming and fulfilling the message of Moses before him.
The prophets demonstrated to mankind that it is possible to stick to the path of God and live righteously. Those who follow the doctrine of 'original sin' are the ones who believe in the tales that the prophets did all kinds of filthy sins. The Qur'an came to set the matter straight. The prophets upheld their end of their covenant with God and were righteous examples for us all. I must reject your tale of Solomon as a falsehood. It's true that he could have fell prey to the temptations that affect us all, but God said he remained steadfast, and chose to stick to the Path. Therein is much wisdom for those who believe.
Jay Mac - So you're saying that you don't believe that Solomon practiced sin and did all the things that was written in the Ecclesiastics?
Muhammad Rasheed - No. God said that Solomon was upright and the most righteous, and was why He bestowed upon him the special favors He did.
The people in the rival tribes of Israel, just as people do in the modern day, invented all kinds on nonsense gossip that they said the king did, without any certain knowledge, and that gossip was passed along with the bible tales as if it was fact. When the book was finally written down by the scribes, all of that nonsense made its way in, too. It conflicts with God's final message and thus, I reject it out of hand.
Jay Mac - Well I guess we have two different accounts of what happened to Solomon.
According to my interpretation (2 Chronicles 1:7-11, YHWH blessed Solomon with wisdom because he asked for it in order to be a better leader to Israel. It had nothing to with how righteous Solomon may or may not have been...
Muhammad Rasheed - Do you think He would've gave it to him if the prophet-king WASN'T obedient and on the righteous path as he was required to be for his station?
Muhammad Rasheed - How could he be a "better leader" by not being righteous?
Muhammad Rasheed - Can the prophet-king of Israel be wise and not be righteous by way of following the commands of the One God of Israel?
Jay Mac - Yeah, he was obedient at the time that wisdom was bestowed upon him. Sure?
I mean, David slept with Uriah's wife and then had Uriah killed to cover up his sin. Did YHWH NOT know that David would sin BEFORE he made David king of Israel?
Muhammad Rasheed - Did you not hear me when I said I reject that foolishness? lol
Jay Mac - Ok.
Well I guess there's no need to go any further.
LOL!
Muhammad Rasheed - In the Qur'an, God clears His messengers of the falsehoods the People of the Book subscribe to them in their corrupted scripture.
Muhammad Rasheed - Especially the one where they claimed the messenger was God's son.
Muhammad Rasheed - The Final Message sets everything to right.
Karla Holland - The women proposing to men seems to only be happening among black women and the loser men too loser to propose to them. Even feminists expect a guy to propose. The multiple wives thing, I'll get back to that.
Marc Keelan-Bishop - My wife proposed to me. 13 years and going strong. I think it depends on the mental maturity of those involved.
Marc Keelan-Bishop - I'd say it's just as likely that these marriages last longer because they start from a position of surprise and not taking things for granted. In the absence of stats, we're both guessing. (I also hyphenated and took my wife's name)
Muhammad Rasheed - I think in many cases, the guys were taking things for granted, based on the "I get all the milk I want, so why should I buy the cow?" concept. This is why the woman felt she HAD to propose in order to get what she wanted, because she was tired of hinting, asking and telling.
Marc Keelan-Bishop - Perhaps. Some day someone will do a statistical comparison.
Jay Mac - Yo!
Very interesting commentary, doc.
Very interesting...
Jay Mac - The second wises man to ever walk planet earth had 100's and 100's of wives and concubines. And in the end, he came to the conclusion that it was all meaniningless.
He regret that he didn't obey his God...
Muhammad Rasheed - Who was the first wisest?
Jay Mac - Yashua........
Muhammad Rasheed - Why do you think King Solomon the Wise (peace be upon him) didn't obey his Lord?
Jay Mac - He was warned not to get involved with all of those foreign women. He was warned that they would turn his heart away from God. And the more he indulged, the MORE he indulged.
Solomon said that he tried everything under the sun. I don't exactly know what that entails, but I can imagine that there was no sin he didn't try.
LOL!
Muhammad Rasheed - The Qur'an gives a very different account of Solomon's character, and says that he was an upright man of integrity, whose impeccable reputation for high wisdom came directly from his obedience to his Lord. What you describe sounds more like the gossip from rival tribe scribes that made its way into the book.
Jay Mac - Naaaaa.
God blessed Solomon with great wisdom, but even the most wise amoung us can fall prey to sinful desires...
Muhammad Rasheed - Jay Mac wrote: "Naaaaa."
Saying "naaaaa" is like saying "naaaaa" to Yeshua's message confirming and fulfilling the message of Moses before him.
The prophets demonstrated to mankind that it is possible to stick to the path of God and live righteously. Those who follow the doctrine of 'original sin' are the ones who believe in the tales that the prophets did all kinds of filthy sins. The Qur'an came to set the matter straight. The prophets upheld their end of their covenant with God and were righteous examples for us all. I must reject your tale of Solomon as a falsehood. It's true that he could have fell prey to the temptations that affect us all, but God said he remained steadfast, and chose to stick to the Path. Therein is much wisdom for those who believe.
Jay Mac - So you're saying that you don't believe that Solomon practiced sin and did all the things that was written in the Ecclesiastics?
Muhammad Rasheed - No. God said that Solomon was upright and the most righteous, and was why He bestowed upon him the special favors He did.
The people in the rival tribes of Israel, just as people do in the modern day, invented all kinds on nonsense gossip that they said the king did, without any certain knowledge, and that gossip was passed along with the bible tales as if it was fact. When the book was finally written down by the scribes, all of that nonsense made its way in, too. It conflicts with God's final message and thus, I reject it out of hand.
Jay Mac - Well I guess we have two different accounts of what happened to Solomon.
According to my interpretation (2 Chronicles 1:7-11, YHWH blessed Solomon with wisdom because he asked for it in order to be a better leader to Israel. It had nothing to with how righteous Solomon may or may not have been...
Muhammad Rasheed - Do you think He would've gave it to him if the prophet-king WASN'T obedient and on the righteous path as he was required to be for his station?
Muhammad Rasheed - How could he be a "better leader" by not being righteous?
Muhammad Rasheed - Can the prophet-king of Israel be wise and not be righteous by way of following the commands of the One God of Israel?
Jay Mac - Yeah, he was obedient at the time that wisdom was bestowed upon him. Sure?
I mean, David slept with Uriah's wife and then had Uriah killed to cover up his sin. Did YHWH NOT know that David would sin BEFORE he made David king of Israel?
Muhammad Rasheed - Did you not hear me when I said I reject that foolishness? lol
Jay Mac - Ok.
Well I guess there's no need to go any further.
LOL!
Muhammad Rasheed - In the Qur'an, God clears His messengers of the falsehoods the People of the Book subscribe to them in their corrupted scripture.
Muhammad Rasheed - Especially the one where they claimed the messenger was God's son.
Muhammad Rasheed - The Final Message sets everything to right.
Karla Holland - The women proposing to men seems to only be happening among black women and the loser men too loser to propose to them. Even feminists expect a guy to propose. The multiple wives thing, I'll get back to that.
Marc Keelan-Bishop - My wife proposed to me. 13 years and going strong. I think it depends on the mental maturity of those involved.
Marc Keelan-Bishop - I'd say it's just as likely that these marriages last longer because they start from a position of surprise and not taking things for granted. In the absence of stats, we're both guessing. (I also hyphenated and took my wife's name)
Muhammad Rasheed - I think in many cases, the guys were taking things for granted, based on the "I get all the milk I want, so why should I buy the cow?" concept. This is why the woman felt she HAD to propose in order to get what she wanted, because she was tired of hinting, asking and telling.
Marc Keelan-Bishop - Perhaps. Some day someone will do a statistical comparison.
Jay Mac - Yo!
Very interesting commentary, doc.
Very interesting...
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