Tuesday, December 30, 2014

The Thickest Skin: Critique as an Artistic Development Tool

Tyler Forrest Martin - Is it common in these types of groups to praise bad art? I've seen so many "creators" on here push mediocre art. Me personally have invested hundreds just making sure my art on pin-ups and sequentials was appealing and eye catching. This genre of literature is the only time you have to "judge a book by it's cover" and yet I still see people pushing rushed and mediocre work that looks like a 3rd grader stabled it together with Dutch tape and crayolas. If independents ever want to be taking seriously by big publishers and even potential customers shouldn't we shoot for no less than perfect? 

Darin Mangaka McKisic - There is no good. There is no bad. Only opinions. 

Tyler Forrest Martin - Guess your right. 

Eric Jimenez - I agree Tyler. But each person has a different definition of what is perfect. Everyone's standards are different. 

Will Henry - @Tyler Forrest Martin… when you see mediocrity, give constructive criticism. Some people's standards are low because that is all they know. They've surrounded themselves with mediocre people with mediocre vision, so it is acceptable to them to be mediocre. 

Tyler Forrest Martin - I've tried but was completely attacked thanks will 

Eric Jimenez - Lol you were a bit abrasive though. Even though I agreed with you, you offered an opinion, not criticism. 

Will Henry - Lol all great people are attacked by the masses for being high achievers. When they say "shoot for the stars" they weren't saying it to get people to rise up. They were saying it to shoot the stars out the sky. 

Tyler Forrest Martin - Eric I agree I just get so passionate about those types of things I could never imagine my self posting mediocre or halfassed work and wanting to be taken seriously as a creator 

Will Henry - Take it as a compliment and keep doing what you do. Dont take the attacks personal. Do like i do and say "Forgive them. They know not what they do" 

Matt James - To be honest, I see a lot of art posted in various facebook groups that "misses" the fundamentals - things like anatomy, perspective, composition etc, etc. some people are willing to hear what you have to say, others will get defensive and call it their style etc.The people who can listen to the criticism, filter out the noise, and then put said criticism to good use are the ones who succeed. The others will usually find out the hard way, they should have listened to those with experience (when their work doesn't sell like they think it will) 

Phillip Johnson - Sometimes it is a third grader, in which case it should be praised, as for the others, I feel like the lack of likes should be a good indicator. 

Anthony Hochrein - "There is no good. There is no bad. Only opinions." Sorry,I have to disagree with you there. There is a standard of excellence that most mainstream publishers MUST adhere to if they want to stay in business. That includes publishing only creators whose artwork reflects their strong grasp of anatomy, color theory, and perspective. The problem is, it takes a LOT of work to get from Joe Shmoe art student who spends most of their time partying or playing video games to becoming a Stephen Segovia, George Perez or Alex Ross who spends MOST of their waking hours perfecting their craft. There are millions of people who want to be stars and only a handful who make it. Go up to Neal Adams with mediocre artwork and he, having trained scores of young talent will not hesitate to tell you to your face to quit or continue. 

Will Henry - There are third graders here? 

Tyler Forrest Martin - Well said Anthony 100% agree 

Phillip Johnson - There are some younguns in a couple of these forums, yes. 

Lonnie Lowe Jr. - There is a such thing as bad art. This group coddles a lot. The thing is there's no standard. You have a few amazing artist. You have guys here who are fairly new to this and look like it and you have guys who've been drawing their entire lives and look like they've just opened their first box of crayons. 

It seems there's a blanket of understanding and encouragement here regardless of your skill set. I've seen a pin up just a step or two above a stick figure get praised here. 

You don't know who's who so I just don't say anything unless I like something. Also a lot of these guy's work is starting to look similar. I've noticed that as well. I don't criticize or critique anything. Its not my place. I don't have the credentials to, but I do know bad art when I see it. 

I'm not even sure if the "Big Leagues" is everyone's goal here. Some folks just draw because they like to draw. So with that in mind I just like what I like and don't what I don't. 

Van Montgomery Jr - If you are going to create a product and hope to sell it you should strive for excellence !! I can guarantee that the competition will put there best work forward.......even if you don't like the Big 2 or similar brands you have to notice that they have standards. 

Eli Hix - You have different levels of artistic ability. I support all that are working on their craft. Also I find that the most opinionated artists usually aren't that good themselves 

Eli Hix - Some people in here are simply just learning 

Anthony Hochrein - Personally, I don't like shooting aspiring artists down, especially if I see that they have SOME potential to grow. The problem is, is the individual going to continue to get coddled by their close friends and family who will praise everything that they do, or are they going to take honest critique and the hard lined criticism and learn from it. I went to Art & Design High School in Manhattan and MOST of my graduating class moved on to other professions that weren't art related. It's difficult to swallow your pride and learn from criticism. It's also a task to learn WHO will tear you down for the sake of tearing you down. 

Phillip Johnson - Art is a world best suited for the thick skinned. The most famous still get harshly criticized. 

Eli Hix - I hear you... A suggestion works. If you have a crit. Put it in the form of a suggestion.. But there are some "I just want to prove I'm better" types in here.. 

Eli Hix - Yep in the art world especially comic art. The hate is real 

Phillip Johnson - Most definitely 

James Jimmyofdubiththethird Washington - This thread needs to be publish abroad. I too have been attacked for not coddling the artists that could stand much more practice. Truth is, these artist that are grown men drawing remedial looking characters, pasting photos of backgrounds behind weak & illegible graffiti style headers, that are pretending to be graphic title designs, are perfectly content scribbling these things out in bulk to pass it off as some kind of work flow. & then believe cause this "art" is in printed form or they made a little cash around the block, at church, in their circles of like minded peers, that somehow solidifies them as competent competitors with big comic companies & we should buy their poorly executed product. 

Too long have I myself been silent, snickering with the other artists about the none stop brofists, high fives, @ss slapping made over disposable comics, characters, & concepts that miss the mark if a proper company would be involved. I myself know I have weaknesses to overcome & seldom post art because I stay in my studies, learning things I missed, practicing the craft, consulting other artists I feel are my superiors before I do post my amateur works. There is definitely bad art regarding sequential art, character art, & design concepts. Unfortunately that bad art circulates in abundance in these facebook groups & even dedicated art sites. You will know the artists open for critiques on their work. They will praise you for taking time to even comment honestly on their work & for paying attention to the other discussions on their pieces. Just seek out the good stuff you like & try to filter out the Picture Page Art or the Coloring by Brohan sections. Build a network with artists that matter to you, & hopefully succeed if you made good contacts that are seriously interested in achieving a better standard of art.

Van Montgomery Jr - @Lonnie Lowe Jr…. I totally agree with you. When it comes to my art or stories I would prefer being praised for the quality I bring to the table..........that quality comes from taking the effort to actually master the basics of art and story telling and putting into practice what I learn as I go along . I think some are comfortable where they are artistically and as creators. That's sad. You should want to push the limits of what you are doing to get the best results. Some of my favorite artists and writers, who are highly accomplished , are still students to their craft. They do not hesitate to push themselves to be better ! That's why guys like Ross, Byrne, Lee, Buscema and more are great ! They aren't afraid to push the limits of creativity to get the best . No, creator should be afraid to want to be better but, unfortunately some don't .

Matt James - Criticism is not hate - it is a genuine attempt to help somebody. Sure, some people are immature enough give malicious criticism, but the same is true of any endevour in the adult world. The thing to keep in mind is even the harshest criticism can be on the money - it is a question of weather the artist being critiqued is professional enough to take it on board and use it. 

Eli Hix - As I stated before a suggestion and hate are two different things and the most opinionated people in here usually aren't that great them selves. How can you trash someone's sense of Anatomy when your Anatomy skills are not that great... I have suggested to a couple of artists a very good figure drawing book. And even showing them where to get the free pdf. And I didn't come off like a jerk.... I have not seen one artist in this group that does not need work on something... Humble yourself folks. And work on your own craft

Anthony Hochrein - Art is something that we need to be constant students of. Arriving to us is just a stop before we climb to the next rung on the ladder. There is always something more to learn about light, line work, composition, anatomy, etc, that we can add to our own work. A student or a liar can say, "I don't use reference". Remember that even seasoned comic art masters stole poses and composition from other artists and even traced reference to get a job done. The difference between an amateur and a professional is that the professional makes that swipe their own, and puts their own stamp on it.

Eli Hix - @Matt James… but how you give that crit. Is very important

Van Montgomery Jr - Nail on the head James !!

Matt James - Even an untrained eye is capable of seeing when something is out. But yes, in general a persons body of work will determine how qualified they are to critique.

It is important to humble in receiving critique - especially when it is coming from somebody who knows what the are talking about - assuming somebody is trying to tear you down when they are taking the time to critique your work is a very arrogant position to take. 

I can honestly say I have picked up the most from heavy handed critiques - they are no bullsh*t and straight to the point. I have 3 years off university level art school (majoring in Illustration) and I have also had the privilege of critique from the likes of Bud La Rosa - no body beats around the bush, or is going to coddle you if you want to be a pro. You just have to take it on board and roll with it.

Tim Improving Harris - I'm not going to coddle an artist but I sure aint gonna bring him down either. If you ask my opinion I'll give it. But if it lacks I won't praise it unless theres something of merit to gleam from it.

Eli Hix - There are people in here who say things to others like " you're not good enough"... This is not a crit. It's a put down

Matt James - That is true it is not a critique, and certainly not what i am talking about. A critique must be specific and have a point - it does not have to be positive in tone, but it must indicate specific issues that the critique is referring too, and include advice on how to improve, or where to find the information to improve.

Eli Hix - On the money Matt James

Winston Jordan - This group isn't about putting aspiring artists down. It doesn;t mean that we're going to say that everything that comes through here is just fantastic either. No artist should be so arrogant, so conceited that they think they don;t have anything to learn or can;t be better. A critique is one thing. Telling someone 'your art sucks' is an altogether different mater, even if it is true.

Derek Mason - Art is a tricky thing and different people have different taste. Some people think Picasso is great, while I myself would choose a work by Jack Kirby over Picasso anything. Cartoons like Steven Universe, Squidbillies, Gumball , and Uncle Grandpa prove that there is a market for not so great art. Just in the eye of the beholder. I may not financially support it, but I won't knock another artists creativity.

Anthony Hochrein - That would be trolling.

James Jimmyofdubiththethird Washington - Offering a comparison illustration between the weak artwork to the desired result is also an excellent way to enlighten a point. Thing is, these artist that are being mentioned by Tyler Forrest Martin, they have no interest in excellence. It is unfortunate, but as long as the blinders are on & the minimum salary or cash is brought in by these artist, they see no reason to improve or advance their skill set.

Winston Jordan - Exactly Eli Hix, Critiques are meant to be helpful and help the artist overcome hurdles. I usually say, "not bad, but here's what I would work on if I were you..' and I do it without coming off as a know it all asshole. The old saying holds true, its not what you say, but how you say it. No one's going to be receptive to your advice if you come in trashing them. Going 'your art sucks' and disguising it as a 'critique' isnt cool

Phillip Johnson - The likes of uncle grandpa and Steven universe aren't bad art at all. They're nice clean and complete strokes and derive from a different genre from the action hero art.

James Jimmyofdubiththethird Washington - I would rather hear the actual critiques than the sugarcoating before "but." Everything in the sentence before the "but," is there to drop your guard against the actual truth about to be delivered.

Phillip Johnson - It is a shame for any artist to believe they have no more to learn.

Tom Romano - I feel that constructive criticism goes further than destructive ones. Praise what that person did well and then tell and show them how to fix what they did wrong. You can take a no bullsh*t approach to what you say, just don't be insulting with it. I've learned more from people who were willing to tell me what was right and wrong with my work, than those who ripped it apart. And those who ripped me, when I asked what they felt was done well with the work, couldn't give me an HONEST answer about what I did right.

Sean Vincent Harley - Me personally you can critique my work all day long. I know I'm not the best artist in the room and if you have a better idea that will help me improve my skill great. But I find a lot of times when folks come at me with a critique it's based on preference and not an honest critique. For instance I created the pic below for my buddy Alex Fernandez and the critique I got was why is she holding her middle finger up with out the person knowing the personality of the character. To them it was typical and took away from the pic I guess cause the character is black. I didn't get offended or anything but it did feel more like an opinion than a real critique. Now I haven't had anyone come at me disrespectful on any of my art but I have seen where people told an artist their work looked like straight up shit in this room on a post offering no way to for them to improve. That type stuff to me is a no no. A person will definitely feel under attack if your approach was like that which I have seen a lot lately. Shoot, I would feel attacked if someone approached me that way. Personally I don't offer criticism unless I'm asked and if I feel I really need to them I do it in a private message.

Phillip Johnson - We should all post something for some good ole critique!

Winston Jordan - Agreed Tom Romano

Derek Mason - seriously ? Uncle Grandpa and Steven Universe look like note book doodles compared to shows like Boondocks

Phillip Johnson - No way! Uncle grandpa has a style descended from old cartoons and stuff like ten and stimpy, Steven universe is very simple and clearly has its roots in chibi style anime, boondocks has its roots in graffiti art and anime. All three different styles, but complete ones. I'm willing to bet that the artist for uncle grandpa is capable of doing some impressive work on canvas.

Stephen Kelley - I'd like to add (as an aspiring writer) that we need to partly wave the red tape for writing portfolios, what i mean is keeping the legal stuff binding but also have writers in the industry tell you what you should work on as far as storytelling, panel descriptions, that kind of stuff cause alot of ppl can't afford to take screenwriting class after screenwriting class and only still turn up short it just feels wrong IMO for writers to be left out on the sidelines becaue what that shows based on info i gathered that "artists matter more than writers" comics as a whole should include judging every person on every part of the process but than my way of thinking has always been abit "overlycompassionate"

Eric Jimenez - I'm down for some critiques. I posted a pic of a bunch of chibi fan art sketch cards I've been working on. It's nothing dynamic because chibi is simple and fun but it's good practice for layouts and color comp. Any and all opinions are more than welcome 

Phillip Johnson - I like your chibis, might I suggest using a fountain pen for the hard lines?

James Jimmyofdubiththethird Washington - @Phillip Johnson… that i could get behind.

Ramon Gil - Some people really just love and enjoy drawing superheroes and aren't necessarily trying to break in to the industry. And that's ok. There are other FB groups for those who are truly serious.

Ramon Gil - If you really are serious about comics and happen to live in the NYC area, you may want to check out this event i'm organizing. A Really Awesome Comic Book Critique

Damion Gonzales - Oh look! More comedic entertainment!!! I swear its an embarrassment of gut busting riches!!!

Tom Romano - Hey Sean Vincent Harley, I just think some people need things to pick on. I couldn't care less about the middle finger. I think if you had a shot of your characters standing on the ground together, showing off their powers, with a "don't mess with us" look, and even with the middle finger still being up, it MAY have more of an impact with the drawing.

Winston Jordan - The person who brought up that point on Sean Vincent Harley picture knew nothing about Seraphim. All he could find wrong was why was she flipping the bird

Lonnie Lowe Jr. - Either way. I won't critique/criticize any of you guys work. Just don't draw any of my characters please.

Damion Gonzales - ^^^^HAHAHAHAHAHAAAA

James Jimmyofdubiththethird Washington - Also, do not mistake "style" for lack of competence in the medium. A style can be turned off to express realism, altered to be impressionistic, exaggerated to be a cartoon, anime, or Disneyesque... style is not a lack of understanding proper anatomy, perspective, & foreshortening... it is using these elements in harmony to render a solid illustration!!!

Lonnie Lowe Jr. - @Damion Gonzales… Cut it out Seriously though. Its about protecting the brand. What if someone is curious about E.P.I.C and does a Google search and a bunch of unsanctioned sub par work shows up? That's a potential base that we've lost.

Hakim Hasan - Go out fail and grow.

if you cannot correct your short comings then why create. Some have a fulfillment of the action of a romantic craft and others wish for a dream, but a dream is just that.

hard work is practice til death.  ~Hasan Hasan

Matt James - But also, you should never try pass off lack of proficiency I. The basics of art as style either. Using cartoons as an example - I promise each of those artists understand anatomy and are more than capable of drawing a person with correct anatomy. They exaggerate to create a particular style, not screw it up and then pass it off as a style.

Hakim Hasan - Also for the record. 

If I see one more unoriginal character I will give the harshest crit ever.

Hakim Hasan - Intentional is not without the understanding of the basics.

Hakim Hasan - You have to know to push the original before you go beyond. 

Some people sketch cheesy and can paint and draw classically. 

That's how I was taught. If you cannot do that then it's a pointless exercise.

Damion Gonzales - @Lonnie… I totally understand the "why" you said what you said...the "how" you said it made me fall da eff out.

Shawn Norton - I think that sometimes people should just let their work be their voice. I see too many people tearing others down or critiquing work when they have no skill or knowledge to back it up.

Hakim Hasan - If you don't have an education sure but if you do I would say tear away.

Anthony Hochrein - I've seen some very egotistical, well trained artists go South and decide they want to tear down their "lessers", only to fall far themselves. We're emotional beings.

Hakim Hasan - They sound like douches.

Hakim Hasan - I'm just honest.

Shawn Norton - Hakim-almost all of the greats have NO education. They educated themselves and learned from others at conventions. Since you are so educated and feel you are able to critique from an"educated" standpoint...show us some work. We want to see what "educated" work looks like

Jess Hurley - 1) Everyone posting here is where they are as an artist right now. If they ask for constructive criticism then give it. Don't be a jerk about it. Charles Schulz had one of the greatest cartoons of all time in Peanuts but was not by any imagination considered "great artwork". It was effective, not great. 2) Every great artist starts somewhere, so it is un-productive to treat others like crap unless you are selling millions of comics. 3) Post at your own risk. Not everyone cares about your feelings...be warned. The comics field is very very competitive. I have never done a show where I wasn't up against over 500 other creations. You might want to watch a bunch of Rocky motivational speeches before you say "hey, here is my new comic".

Hakim Hasan - The difference between me is that I'll help.

All of the greats have educations it's was debunked for me while I was in college a colleague or associate is also a teacher.

so the act of assuming is the falling of death ears in a room of shouting children,

Hakim Hasan - All of the greats have had educations. Informal or formal. 

Educations are why they are greats.

Eli Hix - Stylized art is a little harder to crit. But, you can still read whether the artist has a grasp on Anatomy with Stylized art. Personally I have simplified my characters to borderline cartoon art because a bunch of etch lines and muscle formations won't get your story across any better. And I save time by simplifying my art. But trust I can get down with some traditional comic art, anime, mechs whatever.... Point is be careful of what's lack of study and what is just style

Hakim Hasan - It's not hard just ask for the influences and reference.

Eli Hix Anthony Hochrein - there are a ton of hyper competitive jerks out there who just love tearing other artists down.. Sad

Hakim Hasan - Everyone wants to break into comics. 

My problem is that every big name in comics, would like to see me in film or concept art for games.

Hakim Hasan - Like he said its competitive but with hard work you can push through it. 

I'm in an online painting class with people that are in the industry and other that are jerks so I get it some people like to feel safe.

Safe is at home in your bed with family.

I don't have a family unless you call them artist. 

My greatest gift is that I was raised alone with out a family.

Shawn Norton - Then show your work since all the big names love it so much

Hakim Hasan - Check out my blog and also I have an artist page.

Hakim Hasan - I'll wait.

James Jimmyofdubiththethird Washington - Some further great points... but the, "you do you & I'll do me" attitude is counter intuitive as a content creator & artist. You don't care what your peers say? You probably hold your audience in contempt as well & just want their cash. These people I will never collaborate with.

Hakim Hasan - We'll you have to do what you don't want to grow in the long run.

Eli Hix - I have no issues with other people's art. Good or bad. We are all learning we are all trying g to honestly express something BUT!!!!!!!! IF I SEE ONE MORE BLACK SAMURAI OR BLACK KUNGFU character, I'm gonna hurl.... Yes I am black lmao..... We have warriors too and history, stories to be told. Anime or Manga are great artforms but I have no interest in black naruto.... Sorry just being honest

Adrian Garcia - You got the skills Hakim, but other people are not as lucky...have different skill sets...haven't mastered many of rule of the art yet...to push a mediocore artist is to help them grow there skills...many of us will point out the bad, few will point out the good, or give truely good advice. You have skills, you should try help those who aren't up to your speed...also perfection can only be seen by waiting for the moment when the right rain drop falls from the sky, at the right time of day and right hour.

Hakim Hasan - Make historically accurate characters not romanticism. Then push forward.

Hakim Hasan - Hakim Hasan's Blog

Eli Hix - Well said Adrian Garcia

Shawn Norton - A lot of your work looks conceptual...rough sketches, etc. some of the colored pieces do look nice. I see no backgrounds or much full figure work. I would like to see more of that (and so would companies)...very cartoony style (but it's effective)...I don't see ANY page work. NO elements of storytelling.

Hakim Hasan - I just offered. I can help out until I start my masters program.

Van Montgomery Jr - Preach !!

Eli Hix - I'll say this. our attitude and our personality sells you more than our art fam. No one wants to work with arrogant jerk.. I have seen people in this group who are very good artists but I won't buy or promote them in any way because I read something extremely foul that the said about another artist... We still are marketing. We still are selling...

Hakim Hasan - I have storyboards as well and some that are in my blog and others that are in process.

Hakim Hasan - I've seen top artist rip down crappy ones. It happens all the time.

Hakim Hasan - Basics are important you can have the nicest sketch in the world but if you cannot complete beyond that it's just a sketch. 

Every sketch that I create used to take me hours but now all boards and sketch only take me a good 30- 40 mins to plan then I paint. 

A sketch is just that a sketch.

Adrian Garcia - My bad...My post should have gone to the poster Tyler Forrest Martin...who posted this up in the first place. May bad Hakim...But i will say to all here and other places. It easy to tare an artist down than it is to build them up...we are all teachers of the knowledge we have, let build up artists

Hakim Hasan - Build involves tearing constructive crits help.

Now just tearing is wrong and I've seen it first hand.

Seth J. Albano - Draw. Create. Don't fuckin' worry about what other people are doing. Someone thinks your art sucks? Good for them. Do YOU like your own work? Because THAT is all that matters; your skills won't grow if your confidence is dependent on others. If you want to make comics, your job is to tell a story. If you manage to make it pretty along the way more power to you, but that's secondary to building tension, showing emotion, and evoking the right reactions out of your audience. Bottom Line: Find out what moves you and draw THAT. But don't you dare stop drawing, and if you want someone else's opinion don't you dare slow down first. NEVER STOP!!!! If you're born storyteller, you won't be able to...

Hakim Hasan - Some just see tearing as a bad thing but in art school it makes you better if you can take it. 

My work used to suck bad but I learned that being torn down made me realize that I have to work to be better. 

People that fear that never make it. 

I was told this by a guy that works for Marvel/DC comics. 

I can't use his name.

Winston Jordan - The atmosphere of ICC is one of encouragement, not tearing people down. There's a way to make a helpful suggestion without sounding like an arrogant prick. There are different skill sets here. We realize that, but what developing, aspiring artist wants to be a part of a group that's going to put them down? Other groups I've been to seem to take this approach rather than encouraging. Never be so arrogant that you feel you have nothing to learn. It takes tremendous courage to post your work for the world to see. That alone opens you up to criticism. So be prepared to hear your art isn't the greatest thing since Jim Lee. But at the same time ripping someone's creativity just to do so is not what this group is about

Eli Hix - Word!!!

Jiba Molei Anderson - Ouch... Tell them how you REALLY feel!

Seth J. Albano - Only two things can come from criticism. The first thing is NOTHING, and that's usually what you get, so train yourself to ignore negativity. The second thing is KNOWLEDGE, but you can only get it if you're open to it, and it only holds value if you USE it, so keep sharp.

Omen River - Interesting.

Tom Gause - Tyler Forrest Martin. You're the kind of person I want evaluating my work. I don't want to surround myself with enablers. I want to know people who are willing to tell me my idea is stupid. I'm pretty good at self evaluation, but it's always good to hear another side.

Hakim Hasan - Train to learn but the basics are important you can be creative as much as you want but if your looking to break into the market you have to put in work.

Winston Jordan - In the end I don't really care what Marvel or DC consider good because I'm not publishing through them. It doesn't have to look like marvel to be good.

Hakim Hasan - But you want would there market to buy from you. I want sell beyond close friends and family.

Tom Gause - No disrespect to anyone else, but when I'm being evaluated I prefer a more direct approach. Direct doesn't necessarily mean aggressive, but don't tell me I'm great when I could do better.

Winston Jordan - I agree Tom. But the old saying holds true it's not what you say but how you say it

Tyler Forrest Martin - Winston that just goes to show your work ethic. I say again anybody going into printing and distribution from half assed or mediocre art and covers will hear about those atrocities it's a slap in the face to independents who are serious and dedicated to their work.

Hakim Hasan - Of course. 

It's best to be brutally honest. In some cases you just have to convey the message properly. 

School is disiplence and hobbies can be both. I enjoy both honestly but I learned both.

Winston Jordan - Artists are incredibly emotional people and we attach ourselves to our work. Which is why it's hard to separate a genuine well meaning critique from a personal attack. I hear critiques all the time and I welcome them. But I'm a lot more receptive to 'not bad but here's how you can improve' vs your art sucks'

Tom Gause - Anyone care to pick up a copy and give their opinion of my first comic? It's not online... just yet.

Eli Hix - Plenty of Indi's out there with sub part art. With a nice fan base

Winston Jordan - You know nothing about my work ethic

Tyler Forrest Martin - Now tom that's great art!!!!

Tyler Forrest Martin - I'd deff check it out

Hakim Hasan - I'm not emotional I don't think so.

Hakim Hasan - IDK..

Winston Jordan - Not saying you yourself are emotional. .but there's an attachment to your.work I'm sure

Hakim Hasan - I'm joking brother..

Tom Gause - Now calling my work "stupid" and "lame" is just trolling at it lousiest. But if you read it, and say "The pacing felt slow. I feel this comic could have been more concise in 7 pages than 18" I'll take that seriously, and ask you how you would fix it if you were the editor. Pointing out problems is all well and good, but real critics help you improve. They don't just bash your work.

Tyler Forrest Martin - That was my critique in no way was it rude or slandering

Winston Jordan - Oh ok

Winston Jordan - @Tom Gause… that's all I'm saying. There's a difference in a critique and trolling

Phillip Johnson - Hit me

Eli Hix - The art isn't really that good? Cmon man jerk comment

Eli Hix - You may have had better intent. But that comment definitely rubbed me the wrong way...

Hakim Hasan - Trolling is like going to person house with no pants. 

Now the suggestion of the paneling could be explained or if the editor request the amount it's law unless said other wise.

Jiba Molei Anderson - As an art professor as well as a professional, let me say something that may sting a little:

F%^k your feelings.

As an artist, that is the first thing you must learn in order to become a better artist. Put your feelings, put your ego aside if you want to get better. 

Only trust critiques from those that have also put their ego aside enough to give you pointers on how to become a better artist. the minute you put a price tag on your work, you ARE competing with DC, Marvel, Dark Horse, Image, etc. 

Do not get it twisted.

People who only jock everything that you do are not helping you in the long run.

People who tear down everything you do are DEFINITELY not helping you in the long run.

And, in a Kung-Fu flick, you never saw anyone become the hero by having a soft-ass master.

This is Kung-Fu.

Get it together.

Winston Jordan - @Tyler... He probably would have been a little more receptive to your advice had you just worded that a different way. You don't have to sugarcoat but again not what you say its how you say it especially to artists

Hakim Hasan - Phill who are your influences. And explain the work.

Tyler Forrest Martin - Jiba your my hero! I to am an educator at a middle school so I know all to well and my students success is top priority I won't expect halfassed work

Damion Gonzales - The thread that keeps on giving....seriously.

Tyler Forrest Martin - Eli the art wasn't really that good and that's the exact thing that's going to send potentials customers away. How else could I have said it? "Hey grown man, how was your day? You ok? Well let me just say that i love everything your doing here "

Shawn Norton - I would like to see more panel work from artists...you don't take a portfolio of non-sequential art unless you want to get your feelings hurt.

Eli Hix - You suggest things to help fam. We were once there too. What did you work on. To get where you are at.. Anatomy? Figure drawing? Tracing... There were so many constructive ways you could have put it...

Shawn Norton - Show us figures, backgrounds, transitions, pacing, etc

Eli Hix - I understand what you are saying Tyler Forrest Martin. May I suggest being a little more tactful in your crits he took offense because of the way you said it. Shiz, I took offense

Phillip Johnson - Hakim, my influences are Disney, Robert Williams, Sergio Aragonos, the list is too expansive, lol. This particular piece was a practice in just going bat shit crazy and releasing myself from basic constructs.

Winston Jordan - Hey I can make some suggestions that may help you improve your figure drawing? Sounds a lot better than the art really isn't that good. Telling someone that their work sucks... How else do you expect that conversation to go there not going to be receptive to you

Tyler Forrest Martin - I did that I told him he should invest more in the art before he pushes to printing and distribution. And who takes offense is of no concern to me. If you post something on this sight that is less than amicable and are ready to pass it off as finished I take offense to that. Trust me i said it very nicely there was much I could have said that I didn't thank you

Tyler Forrest Martin - Nice work Phil

Hakim Hasan - depends on what you are looking to do Hughes is mainly a cover and spared artist so that's what you would like to to show. Now if you are looking to do panels then theirs a problem.

Hakim Hasan - my phone died so im back in my studio.

Eli Hix - OK if you say so

Eli Hix - As I stated before our personality sells us as much if not more than our art.

Winston Jordan - And that's fine but don't sound like you yourself have nothing to learn

Eli Hix - Right Winston

Phillip Johnson - Here, I tried an improv sketch to see if I could translate my work into a comic.

Tyler Forrest Martin - Eli you couldn't be more wrong. Readers are looking for a story with good art which makes you feel like your there or can imagine that world. Customers won't know you personally but they will notice your work ethic and what was put in. So of you truly think that you are as misguided as Bizarro

Anthony Hochrein - Jiba Molei Anderson, I couldn't have said it better. You've got to suck it up when a pro gives you a critique. How many times have I heard an aspiring artist in denial claim that some pro dissed them because they were "jealous of their talent".

Tyler Forrest Martin - Philip that Is really good tone and setting. My only critique would be human anatomy which isn't horrible just could use some work

Anthony Hochrein - And I think we can all agree that the right approach to dealing with trolls is to get better and succeed ourselves.

Phillip Johnson - I agree, I struggle with the torso area a lot .

Hakim Hasan - Pick one that influence resonates the most for you.

Winston Jordan - I agree that artists should grow tough skin and learn how to take a critique.. But learn how to constructively give them

Eli Hix - Misguided as bizarro? Heh heh... That's funny. Fanboy jokes

Phillip Johnson - I guess Walt and Sergio

Tyler Forrest Martin - This was a quick sketch I drew at work it was only torso practice. Their are plenty of good anatomy books to borrow at your local library.

Hakim Hasan - So Walt or Sergio.

Eli Hix - There you go Tyler Forrest Martin that's what I'm talking... That's a crit.

Tyler Forrest Martin - Eli it was a joke lol don't take offense

Phillip Johnson - Both as one...lol

Anthony Hochrein - One of my good friends, an artist for DC, told me point blank RECENTLY to go and study George Bridgman's anatomy books. He sees where I struggle in the construction of the muscles, plus, I can always use a refresher at this point. I was confused and frustrated at first, but that was said to benefit me.

Phillip Johnson - Learning is hard!

Hakim Hasan - when you pick we shall begin because i would like the whole group look look at a pece from the artist.

Tyler Forrest Martin - Thanks for the tip ant I've been looking to find a few good anatomy books

Phillip Johnson - Sergio

Hakim Hasan - full name please for the whole group..

Phillip Johnson - I think I'll go to Barnes and noble today

Phillip Johnson - Sergio Aragonos

Eli Hix - @Tyler Forrest Martin… too long in this to take offense fam. We good

Hakim Hasan - if we all have time could we look up work from him and see what can be helped to improve on the piece.

Winston Jordan - @Tyler Forrest Martin… who is your biggest artistic influence

Shawn Norton - Look at Hogarth anatomy books/figure drawing

Shawn Norton - If you're looking for good ones

Hakim Hasan - what I can see is that Sergio uses a power line of action to push exaggeration further in his work. I have been told this countless times that less is more it can go two ways if its just a play on words for editorial then yes less is more because you are trying to push a massage as quickly as possible in a short amount of time. the same would go for a action panel in a comic how to push the message and what would be the focal point.

Hakim Hasan - Sergio is also not really using strong point of anatomy in alot of his editorial works but he hit the points home with a strong lines of action.

Winston Jordan - Hogarths dynamic figure drawing is great

Anwar L. Knox - These people are liars! They praise bad art all the time on here. Those are the people you should watch out for-they are far from your friends and or advisors.

Phillip Johnson - Where he lacks in anatomy he makes up for in fluidity.

Winston Jordan - Seriously?

Phillip Johnson - The master of fine doodles.

Hakim Hasan - The best anatomy books ever would be andrew loomis and George Gerney.

Phillip Johnson - Walt said they basically had to invent a new kind of anatomy for their characters

Tyler Forrest Martin - @Anwar L. Knox… I don't usually agree with your brutal antics but In this case we agree.

Hakim Hasan - He also said that it has to be readable he was a sticker for that.

Hakim Hasan - Walt..

James Jimmyofdubiththethird Washington - & the creator in question about which this topic is written, cannot handle critiques at any level. Stubbornness is also a great friend of pride & an enemy of all artists.

Phillip Johnson - Very true James

Eli Hix - Cartoonist have different rules on Anatomy

Phillip Johnson - Another great, recent influence:

Hakim Hasan - the line of action shows in his work..

Tom Gause - You guys have given me an idea...

Tyler Forrest Martin - This is true James

Hakim Hasan - He also has more than one style.

Phillip Johnson - Is that Sergio?

Hakim Hasan - if the Uncle grandpa / Regular show style is what you are going for your going to need to follow those rules... 1. basics 2.less is more.

Hakim Hasan - Yup, hes was a formal and non formal artist. he work for marvel dc and mad.

Phillip Johnson - Not really going for either of those. I feel like that's his style just took the time.

Hakim Hasan - He studied the basics before he ventured off for his own style look at the legs in the same image. If you had to ask I would have to say just practice more until it calls to you.

Hakim Hasan - I understand that we all have babies and we want to cherish them but we need to let them fly if they expect to grow."babies= Art.."

Hakim Hasan - This is my favorite one that I ran across in his work over the years.

Phillip Johnson - The fundamentals are what I lack for sure. I could only imagine what lengths I could take my work to if I had a basic education.

Hakim Hasan - I also enjoy this.. He was greatly influenced by Sergio.

Hakim Hasan – “Hi Hakim…  Welcome to graduate school-you've been officially accepted into the MFA in Animation and Visual Effects (specialization in Modeling) program! I've pasted your review and course recommendations for your first semester.”

Hakim Hasan - i got into my masters program..

Hakim Hasan - But that does not leave anyone off the hook if you need my help i'm here.

Mike MrSubzero Wright - Feel free to critique all you want...mind you this is almost three years ago

Mike MrSubzero Wright - Last week

Hakim Hasan - What do you have recent..

Mike MrSubzero Wright -

Hakim Hasan - Do you have any full body images of work..

Mike MrSubzero Wright - Not a lot as of lately. .

Hakim Hasan - ok

Hakim Hasan - I'm going to reserve for when you have work. Ok..

Mike MrSubzero Wright - Reserve?

Mike MrSubzero Wright - Hmm..?

Hakim Hasan - yes.. I would need a full to begin. I prefer not assume until then I would like to see what you have as a whole then begin.

Mike MrSubzero Wright - Do you have any finished line work?

Hakim Hasan - yes on my blog.

Hakim Hasan - but its finished to a fine point to be painted.

Hakim Hasan - here a head shot..

Mike MrSubzero Wright - Not assume what? That I can't draw a full body ? I'm not getting upset just asking...and honestly how I have been doing my pieces lately you may not see a full body shot..

Mike MrSubzero Wright - Digital paint?

Jean-Paul Germain - @Tyler…Whoa! You come out the gate swinging! Your opinion may have some merit but who you to decide what is & what is not mediocre work? In other words by your condemnation of others. What if you aren't considered one of the best on ICC? Hypothetically if your artwork isn't considered up to snuff, what should happen to you & people like you if your work doesn't make the grade?

Hakim Hasan - digital and traditional i oil, water color and acrylic as well.

Hakim Hasan - I also do 3d modeling and animation.

Mike MrSubzero Wright - Cool

Hakim Hasan - full

Hakim Hasan - I never assume my teachers did that to me and i hated it, why do it to someone else..

Dave Wilde - Bad art? Unless someone wants your critique, you shouldn't worry about it. You should worry about your craft and your work. You invested hundreds? Good for you. Not everyone is made of money. And just what is perfect? Who are you to make that decision for any of us? You could have your own mistakes pointed out from the viewpoint of a writer, but I don't think you posted looking for a critique. But look at what you wrote and re-read it. Are you perfect? Will everyone think so? Just a few counter points to ponder.

Hakim Hasan - I was a poor foster kids with no parents I worked by doing art. I earned my way with scholarships and hours of sleepless nights so work. I am not made of money I just opened a bank account I never had one ever in my life but i look at my old work and i cry i even hate some of my newer acts of work. I ponder but I work hard. No silver spoon so there is none.

Hakim Hasan - There is no spoon..

Hakim Hasan - unlike a teacher I never assume.

Winston Jordan - Some of you guys I swear who convinced you that you we're the authority on great artwork

OC Taylor - There is a lot of bad art that gets high praises in some of these groups. It's like the contestants on American Idol who can't sing but try out anyway because their mom and friends told them they could sing. Problem is some of these groups have no Simon Cowells only Paula Abduls.
I've seen a lot of these self proclaimed comic book artists and comic book companies only to go to their page and see artwork that isnt very good.
If you draw for fun and don't really care what others think that's fine but if your going to put something in print and put a price tag on it then you better put your best work forward IF you want to be successful. As independents we can't flood the market with tons of shitty books and then wonder why no one is buying our product or taking the indie circuit seriously. In fact as independents we ALWAYS have to put our best work forward and put in the extra work because we don't have the financial backing or characters with a history and a following like marvel and dc. We're trying to gain their readers as well as new ones and you set yourself up for failure by delivering sub-par artwork so when you put out a book the art had BETTER BE ON POINT because that's what's going to catch the attention of the reader first.
It seems a lot of people rush through the whole creative process just so they can say they have published work (guilty) but if you have crappy published work then you've just wasted your time.

Jiba Molei Anderson - hit it on the head when he said f**k you feelings because if you want to be a professional. ..if you want to succeed you have to put that shit aside and learn to take good constructive criticism no matter how it's delivered.
I agree that some people lack "tact" when critiquing but as an artist you have to learn to find the Nuggets of knowledge in any form of correction and put that to use in becoming a better artist..writer..painter..or whatever your life's goal may be and if you can't take criticism then you probably shouldn't post your artwork on a social media sight because to do so is the equivalent of slicing your wrists and jumping into a shark tank.
I used to have a problem with criticism especially from people who can't draw but even in their critiques I found things that helped me grow as an artist and I'm still learning and still growing and still taking critiques. I know how to separate the jewels from the junk while sticking to my style of art and I've seen the difference it makes in my artwork. I know the difference between someone just talking shit and someone delivering a good honest critique or just giving an opinion.
If you can't do that then you probably shouldn't get in to this industry.

Simone Williams - I post here for critiques, the purpose for peer review so to speak. I take zero comments, as not enough interest it sucks because I couldn't get information to better what I do. I just become self critical. I do agree that there is alot of not so great artwork on here. I pass over it and I read the comments or what people have to say and most of the time I just shake my head. I'm more than willing to take crits and help someone with theirs, but will not tolerate being attacked. I've helped someone in this group privately, and he in turn becomes nasty and rude about my artwork and then when someone is a dick to him he is more respectful to him. I really enjoy this group thus far, but don't post much because it feels like mediocrity is avoided, versus hard work (I am self taught, but still have some way to go, I just know that I have a bit more than just simple)

Hakim Hasan - Im sorry to hear that..

Simone Williams - I meant rewarded not avoided lol go me...

Dave Wilde - Let me offer a flip side. I will never be a comic panel artist. I do my own illustrations, but I cannot draw a whole comic book. Why? Because I don't know if I will be able to write my own name next year this time. I have multiple sclerosis, a nerve eating disease. I don't mind art advice and I do what I can to put it into action. Unfortunately, it doesn't always get there for me. So when someone comes by and sneers down their nose at my work, I shrug them off. Eff em. I don't have time for anyone's negative or elitist crap. So what I'm doing, while I still share my art work, is working on building a company that may eventually afford other artists. Artists like any of YOU. And how hard would any of you fight to keep your talents as long as you can? So, I further say this; anyone who goes around bashing other's work (especially mine) sure won't get hired by me.... ever.

Hakim Hasan - Crits are not a form of bashing it pointing out shortcoming to help in the process of embetterment. I look to work for a studio I have good friends that work for Disney and Pixar. Also in the comic industry they are harsh and i love them for it. Because they look to hire me in the future.

Dave Wilde - Hakim, I know there's a difference between bashing and critiquing. I assure you.

Hakim Hasan - I agree.

Dave Wilde - Finally, just to put my money where my mouth is... I'll just leave this here.

Omar Meriwether - I have seen this type of finger pointing from other artist before...a lot, this doesn't come out of friendly competition but from fear, fear of clogging, maneuvering and under cutting. It builds up out of frustration when a said artist sees his art(which maybe awesome going nowhere. So what's next...take it out on the dude on line next to you. Sad but it's the industry at it core BS

Omar Meriwether - I have been struggling to break into the game since the early 90's, what I've seen have pushed me like a bully in school. One thing I know is that there is and will be no black man or woman creating his own because of post and people with this downgrade like attitude. Shit I've walked the artist alley in the Philly con's and saw all the urban artist sitting on lunch tables while the big wheels had colorful booths. Me and my art partner Adrian Garcia walked and talked with them and these guys were solid, with great art and all, pushed to the side because of attitude and lack of approach to the game. When I see you guys working to make something from the ground up I'm down, if u here to beat down learner then boot them!!!! One bad apple kills the bunch.

Mike MrSubzero Wright - Just Draw....

Jason Fernandez - ^Just Draw

Omar Meriwether - This is killing me!!!!!!! WHAT EXACTLY IS BAD ART!!!! I've seen people do stick figures on ten pages and then flick their thumb over it so it moved...old school animation style and that shit was dope!! How do you tell a 12 or 18 year pod his art is bad. I had Jim Lee and Mike Turner (RIP) look at my art book all in one day and the last thing they did was sword gut me!!!!!!!! THIS SHIT CRAZY!!!!!

Eli Hix - Thanks Omar Meriwether for telling it how it is

Simone Williams - @Omar Meriwether there are Indies that create their own if you are looking at the big two then that's a different story. Look up the secret life of crows created by Nei Ruffino female and creator of her own series. I like indie more than marvel/ dc because there is variety.

Eli Hix - Truthfully I spend so much time mastering my craft that I don't have time to judge everyone else's art. So I won't crit unless asked. Either I appreciate your art or I don't. But I never make the mistake of thinking that just because I'm not feeling your art means no one is feeling your art... That's as bad as believing everyone feels my art.

Stephen Kelley - brandon peterson was nothing but nice and really was encouraging considering i admitted i had no formal writing experience he said just from talking to me that i "was a great guy and hoped i would get my break"

Tom Gause - Thats just it, Omar, if you tell someone his art is bad, you're just a troll. If the guy hasn't got a strong grasp of perfection, don't blow sugar up his ass and tell him he'll be the next Jack Kirby. Be straight with him and say, "Your perspective seems to be off. Try to take a pic of yourself posing in the position you want to draw. You'll have a reference for perspective and your work will look more natural." You can be direct without being an asshole.

Omar Meriwether - @Dave Wilde… that picture is DOPE!!! Very expressive and powerful!!! Anatomy wise it could use a little polishing to really make it punch! Other then that great job!!!

Adrian Garcia - My friend omar is correct. There is no such thing as bad art. There is such a thing as commercial art, that needs to sell a product or idea. You are then considered a Illustrator, which is a person that is getting jobs and payments. Many people are artists. Not everyone is a Illustrator. Now when you look at it this way. The Illustrator being paid or Freelancer as you would call him or her, likes to spout all this stuff out there into the world. Still everything squares down to the art you do. Everybody here is an artist at different points of their training, knowledge and skill some are Illustrators other are not. There is no difference except if you are getting paid or not. In the end you opinion is moot, because art for each individual is a different thing to their personal growth.

Dave Wilde - Thank you Omar Meriwether, and I agree, particularly in the hands and wrists I seem to have difficulties. Durgan's legs could use more polish as well.

Omar Meriwether - I respect u all!!! U can make it into the big two by coming together as a community and pushing out three to four solid comic, do it as a web comic, a physical comic and colorful posters. Joe Quesda told us to make them come get us by slamming out work that draws great attention like Image before all the in fighting!!!! This reminds me of sitting in front of Rob Liefield a listening to him tell me I have to work on my hands and body work in the 90's. Well I did just that Mr Liefield what about U lol. Just draw!!

Cliff Hatchetts Art - Many creators are sensitive with thin skin, and resort to pouting and temper tantrums if there is ever a word that deviates from exulting there works no matter the quality of the work. This medium is one of if not the only in which one reads proclamations such as ''there is no good or bad.'' Where else in life is this so. Relationships, Sex, Job performance, food, infrastructure, air quality, athletic events, as well as a proverbial plethora of real world example where there is undoubtedly good and bad , yet when it comes to comic books, we hear the persistent cry ''there is no good or bad,'' which is a contention to which I respectfully disagree. There is good and bad, from my stance, and there are those who do not care to hear the truth. Never wanting to discourage a person or be perceived by the ICC collective as a malcontent or a rabble rouser is the predominant rationale for the lack of honest assessments, and coddling. ''There is no good, or bad,'' ;That's absurd.

James Jimmyofdubiththethird Washington - ^^^ This!

Eli Hix - None of our art is flawless. So who are we to say another person's expression is bad.... We could then say the same for some of the better artists too..

Eli Hix - Let's be real there are some artists in here who think their art is flawless!.... Actually I'll ask a question

James Jimmyofdubiththethird Washington - Maybe we just need to pull examples out then... cause I agree that while no art is flawless, there are plenty full of flaws & it is rather easy to see... comparison seems to be the name of the game here.

Eli Hix - What does everyone on this post think they need to work on

Cliff Hatchetts Art - Color. I need to learn to color.

James Jimmyofdubiththethird Washington - Working on backgrounds myself. Need to develope more consistency with my characters to transition in my sequential art better. I need to practice anatomy more often, new poses both dynamic & static, as well as relaxed situational poses. Use more references & break my habit of always resorting to imagination. My colors need the most work & i stand to do better proof checking my art before posting it.

Eli Hix - Color theory. More figure drawing practice.. Backgrounds

James Jimmyofdubiththethird Washington - Always be practicing. .. I see all my flaws & faults in this. No one else really offered me critiques, so I found everything I disliked about this & will strive to not make the same mistakes.

Jonathan A. Price - @James… Man I wish I could do that with Sketchbook Pro.

Clifton Hatchett - I tell you this is a good piece every time I see it.

James Jimmyofdubiththethird Washington - @Jonathan A. Price, you can do this... I did, & I am so very rusty after taking almost 10 years off away from any kind of art. These two are my first attempts at colors ever... so there are plenty of mistakes.

Eli Hix - I have a suggestion for anyone who is not doing it. Learn figure drawing. Learn how to draw characters from blocks to skeletal to muscle and joint.... Most artists I noticed don't have Anatomy issues they have proportion issues.. Learn the 5 eye rule. The head and pelvis should be the same hight. The torso should be 1 1/2 the hight of head and torso. The width of the pelvis should be wider than torso and head...

Dave Wilde - I'm practicing more digital because it's easier for my hands

Eli Hix - I'm not great at color myself but the only color issue I see is the light source from below her should be stronger because that's where the flame is

James Jimmyofdubiththethird Washington - She is my go to girl, Clifton. Lmmfao, but my point is, I see my flaws. Anyone has the option to say whatever they want about it, critical or praise, I am not gonna get hurt by it. I will learn what I can by the feedback I do get & hopefully adjust the things that are the heaviest issues.

Clifton Hatchett - @James...at some point I will try my hand at coloring, but the when is where I can not be sure of.

T.j. Bullard - Okay people talk about seeing bad art, when it really is a matter of taste and individual likes. I personally think that Rob Liefield needs some art classes, but he sells comics. Don't push your artistic likes on others

Eli Hix - Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahaaa ^^^^^

James Jimmyofdubiththethird Washington - Anytime you find yourself near a forgiving program running like Sketchbook Pro, GIMP, Photoshop, Manga Studio, Illustrator, or any on a Ipad or Android device... please, please, PLEASE... give it a fair shake of about an hour. You will love it!!!

Jonathan A. Price - I don't think anyone here intentionally posts 'bad' art or 'mediocre' art. It is altogether possible and likely that everyone who posts art really is doing the best they can. So if the art isn't up to par in your opinion, you can offer some advice, or choose to ignore it. There is no reason to bash or attack...even for the "f--k your feelings crowd" (which is a position I agree with), attacking someone for having imperfect art will accomplish nothing. They'll get defensive and keep doing what they do if for no other reason than out of spite. So being abrasive just because you make art with a bit more refinement doesn't help anyone.

Eli Hix - @James Jimmyofdubiththethird Washington… all of my work as of recent is sketchbook pro7

Eli Hix - I have sketchbook on my note 4 too..

James Jimmyofdubiththethird Washington - Eli Hix, yes... i am running Sketchbook 7 on PC & Sketchbook 3 Mobile on my Note 3

Jonathan A. Price - Oh don't get me wrong, I can do good work with Manga Studio, but I often wish I could get the hang of Sketchbook Pro as it seems to be a much more "pure" drawing app.

Eli Hix - You can man its the simplest program out

Jonathan A. Price - Not for someone who uses Photoshop/Manga Studio for 90% of his art and does little actual pure drawing.

James Jimmyofdubiththethird Washington - It is Jonathan A. Price, I flow through SBP 7 on PC like a dream. She is good to me...

Jess Hurley - Hands are still a weakness for me.

Eli Hix - @ Jonathan A. Price… I have been using photoshop for 15 or so years I still use it for coloring covers and commissions. I used Manga studio for about a year. But the sketch and lineart never felt natural to me in Manga studio.... As I said I still work with photoshop. But all initial sketches and lineart are done in sketchbook and you can save in tiff and psd

Clifton Hatchett - @Jess...is her right arm bent on the bottom panel, if not remember that the rule is hands stop mid thigh generally.

Omen River - "Who cares about art ... It's the story that matters ..." - writers. *grin*

Eli Hix - Sketchbook pro

Jess Hurley - It is bent… there is a little foreshortening going on, but I don't think I captured that well in the panel.

Jess Hurley - Still time to fix some of this stuff. I won't be adding dialog till March.

Eli Hix - Sketchbook pro

Eric Leggs Sr. - Tyler you could have said How he could improve his art, maybe suggest a book , video or two. That would have been a better way!

Stephen Kelley - man y'all are killin my e-mail lol

Eli Hix - Lol

Eli Hix - Haha @Omen River that's cold

Stephen Kelley - i'm not lyin man, it's more blown up than an 80's action movie LOL

Dave Wilde - @Eli Hix… I like your extremes.

Eli Hix - Thanks bruh. I try to keep things bouncy and animated

Stephen Kelley - i feel as an aspiring writer that art gives focus on what i'm trying to create as well as how to collab better

Cliff Hatchetts Art - @Eli...love your exaggerations.

Eli Hix - Oh lemme give credit that was Dee blocks character

Eric Leggs Sr. - Tyler this particular group considers ourselves as Family, that being said your soliloquy of "And who takes offense is of no concern to me. If you post something on this sight that is less than amicable and are ready to pass it of as finished I take offense to that." Tyler Forrest Martin, maybe this isn't the group for you! While critiques are necessary sometimes I believe you should let that individual ASK YOU FIRST! You have no right to tell anyone here that there work isn't good even if it isn't! If you don't like together work, IGNORE IT and move on. If you think they need help then ask them this question: "CAN I SUGGEST SOMETHING?" Then offer a way to help them improve if they are willing to accept it, if not then shake the dust and move on!

Montreal Mack - Yes you can be bad at doing forms of art. Some people are more talented.Some people grasp and executes different styles of art better than you would. Does that mean you should stop creating and doing art if you have a passion for it? Hell no! If you love doing art and create art often because you love it,then your an artist. You could be a crappy artist but your still an artist. My business partner is not an artist nor does he have a talent for it.Yet he draws and colors.I critique his work often and he has slowly gotten better.Forms and Styles of art can be taught to those who want to learn. There is technical aspects to art that one needs to learn in order to produce quality consistent work. You can choose to go your own way to do art but if your not talented the lack of formal training is obvious to those who have had it. You also have artists who are not talented but know the fundamentals of art . So they produce consistent quality work.

James Jimmyofdubiththethird Washington - ^^^ & that is why I rarely offer anything here. Advice, my art, or writing. Well said & point made clear once again.

Cliff Hatchetts Art - Label your submissions, and this should keep the temper tantrums to a minimum. Artist are extremely sensitive.

Muhammad Rasheed - Winston Jordan wrote: "Artists are incredibly emotional people and we attach ourselves to our work. Which is why it's hard to separate a genuine well meaning critique from a personal attack."

This is a major benefit of going to art school... the mandatory group art critiques will sever that link and enable you to look at your work objectively without taking it personal when someone rips into it for errors.

Eli Hix - True

OC Taylor - Some of you said that you've posted work but no one gave you any feedback. I would suggest that if you want someone to critique your work then state it when you post the picture. There are some in the group (myself included) who don't critique unless asked to do so. Which is why I don't randomly scroll and start critiquing some of the stuff I've seen posted. I believe that just because you have an opinion doesn't always mean everyone wants to hear it BUT this is social media so be prepared for anything if you chose to open that can of worms and put your work out there especially if you start asking for feedback. Your going to get the good as well as the bad but listen to "whats" being said and not "how" it's being said and put to use the information that helps you grow.

Eric Leggs Sr. - Muhammad, even the mandatory critiques in College are NEVER designed to be harsh or tear a persons art down! Never!

Muhammad Rasheed - @Eric… It doesn't matter whether they are designed to or not. Most people feel a sting from anything other than pure praise, and the continuous critiques help them get over that fundamental weakness, so that they won't take it personally even if they do experience the harshest critiques.

OC Taylor - I have agree with Muhammad Rasheed. My brother took commercial art in college so you can imagine how his art which was mostly comic book influenced clashed with what his teacher was teaching. He said it was the hardest class he ever took. The instructor never gave him praise on anything but picked everything he did apart. He said he started to hate his instructor but later understood what he was doing.
You have to have a tough skin if your going to do this or anything else. Some people aren't going to give a dam about offending you and will tell you flat out YOUR ART SUCKS!! It then becomes up to you to get either get better or let someones harsh words (true or not)stop you from doing what you love.

Muhammad Rasheed - One thing about the critique that a lot of lay people miss is that it isn't a piling on affair. A critique is actually a form of debate, the invitation to dialogue. The artist absolutely does have the right to defend his work, and provide a rebuttal to what was said. The lay person who is unaware of the rules of formal critique will often assume that if the artist says ANYTHING back, he/she is being butthurt or taking it personally, but that's not necessarily true.

Just as the critic should be respectful and tactful, the artist's response should also be such.

Montreal Mack - I find the ICC group refreshing.Sure there is a lot of "patting on the back" type of support.But a lot of the members are producing work,got books published, and selling their work. Some may not be considered good based on certain standards,but they have produced published work.Not many artists who are actually good has that high amount of confidence or desire.

Winston Jordan - I did go to school Muhammad Rasheed. I still am very attached to my work. I can take a critique, if thats what its meant to be. Theres a difference in a critique and just tearing someone's work down

Bill Ray Rider III - I dont think targetting people would help them get better. I for one am always looking at how I want my work to look and how I can improve it. I also feel that an artist is the only one who can give criticism for another artists work. As an artist, I feel like im not great at what I do either so its hard not to feel like you're a bully when you make recommendations or criticise someones work.

Muhammad Rasheed - @Winston... Naturally my point is a general one. People are different and will feel that severing to a greater or lesser degree on a case-by-case basis.

Muhammad Rasheed - But I agree that if some jackass is just literally attacking your work for nothing, you certainly don't have to take it.

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