Ken Miles - I don't know anything about economics. I like Sowell because of Black Rednecks and White Liberals, but haven't read the economic books. I have a stupid idea for reparations. Can you tell me exactly why it's dumb or wouldn't work?
So first you legalize weed (this is always step 1 in all my ideas). Then anyone with a documented link to slavery or conquest (black and native Americans with documented ancestry) gets some kind of significant tax write off, allowing them to operate a business selling it at a lower cost. My reasoning is that doing it this way, you avoid the problems with a lump sum handout, which wouldn't really move the needle long-term, and would be at the expense of the taxpayer.
Henry Fu - I think the point is no one is owed anything simply for being born. What may have happened to your ancestors a long, long time ago doesn't give you entitlement to anything.
Sean Conner - Cause where do you stop it? At what point are things ok again? or equal?
Artus Barris - Every racial group has been enslaved by another at some point in history so you're going to have to define "link to slavery." Unless you want everyone to have a significant tax
Brian Wilson - No ! All should be treated the same! My ancestors were poor immigrants who I'm sure have resentments over treatment in Europe! I've problems with tax credits too send kids to College! It doesn't help me!
Thaddeus Vannice - Plus, what a Bureaucracy, IRS on steroids.
Chuck Mason - Read Vision of the Anointed next. Also, How to Lie With Statistics is good.
John Luiten - Reparations are fine all former slave owners should be made to pay compensation to all former slaves. ;-)
James Parriott - "So first you legalize weed (this is always step 1 in all my ideas). " ... I think I see your problem .......... ponder for a moment why the word "pipedream" has all the connotations that it does .........
Bill Brothers - the liberal left seems so eager to bring up slavery while not only praising but glorifying "pimping" as something cool and hip when it's the worst kind of slavery - you enslave the "ho's" to take away their economic output while enriching yourself...
Bill Brothers - I don't know - anyone that worked hard jobs for little pay would rather continue to do that than get buggered repeatedly or screwed repeatedly or beaten daily and have someone else get the money...
Brian Renaud - I feel like I'm black. I want some to
Dee Bleifeld - LOL
Dee Bleifeld - No one presently alive in the US has been enslaved or held slaves. In fact, a large number of Anglos (including my ancestors) and Hispanics immigrated after slavery was abolished and whatever "conquering" had already been done. We don't owe anyone anything anymore than the Germans owe my family reparations for the lives of the dozen or so male family members who were conscripted into the army of the Third Reich.
Ronald Vossler - I suggest regular people get paid reparations for having to endure all the social justice, looting, cop killing, etc, not to mention Obama and Michealle and
Rachel Lagafuaina - Hahaha agreed.
Cliff Garrison - What happened to your ancestors just may have put you and your descendants in position to be better off than they were. Life has ways of handing us lemons and letting us make lemonade.
Miles N. Fowler - This is a sore point with some African-Americans. It might be true that if their ancestors had stayed in Africa there was a 100% chance they'd have been killed while their chance of surviving being enslaved was not much better than 50% - maybe worse. The odds are statistically better for the slave, but tell that to the guy who didn't make it. (Well, you can't, and his descendants don't exist.)
Marilyn M. Krzus - But if he didn't have descendants, then no one owes him anything. Besides, I'm guess that the individuals who owned slaves for their plantations back then probably lost their slaves AND their plantations during the Civil War. I doubt anyone who had slaves would have been able to give reparations as they were, in many cases, destitute after the war.
Bill Brothers - we need a refund of our social security money, any taxes over 10% and any unfair treatment via left wing policies where you're passed over for a quota...
Bill Brothers - we need a refund of our social security money, any taxes over 10% and any unfair treatment via left wing policies where you're passed over for a quota...
Bill Brothers - and all of Hillary's ill gained loot should be confiscated and returned to any taxpayers that have not received any refunds for more than one year
Ronald Vossler - Things are never equal. Equal opportunity not equal outcome.
That is why I am more conservative. Liberals think there is no statute of limitations (that would mean a border, a boundary , a wall) on anything.
Marilyn M. Krzus - Bingo! You are so right--no two people are perfectly equal anyway. Even if given the same exact chances, which no one is, one person may spend all their money on drugs and cars, and the other person saves it. Already they are no longer equal. You cannot legislate equality, except in treatment and opportunity. Remove all the affirmative action; let's get back to letting the best people for the job do the job. Then we can start making America great again (and I don't mean, for racists out there, that the best for the job will necessarily be a white person).
Frank D. Banta - Reparations? Read "Time On The Cross" wherein Nobel Laureate Economic Historian documents that slaves in the US were compensated for their labor at 90% (vs 60% or less for wage earners today); and enjoyed a higher quality lifestyle; by every measure, than the immigrant wage slaves in the North.
Read Sowell's "Race And Culture" and learn that Africans brought as slaves to North America are the most fortunate in the world.
Marilyn M. Krzus - Considering that today their descendants have everything everyone else has (including SUVs, cells, houses, computers, clothing, shoes, food, etc.), I would agree to most of this statement. But I doubt they lived well (not that most people lived like kings back then--most people back then were sleeping on dirt floors and hay, for heaven's sake).
John Petty - After Ali spent months training in Zaire to fight George Foreman, a reporter asked him his impressions of Africa. Ali’s response was “Thank God my granddaddy got on that boat.”
Tim Key - My comment is no reparations. Period. What Native American, "Indian" didn't practice taking another tribes land if they were strong enough? Now as far as blacks, Muslims captured tribal. blacks and sold them to slavers. Get mad at the Muslims first. Blacks themselves bought and sold slaves also. Or don't you know your history. I'm quite sure my father, grandfather or even my great grandfather had anything to do with enslaving any blacks ancestors. So, no reparations.
Bill Brothers - nope - if we all were equal, i'd want to be equal to oprah
Gigi Lee - No Oprah equal for me, about 100 pounds too much of her.
Marilyn M. Krzus - Gigi Lee I think he means monetarily. I agree. I want to be equal to Oprah.
Michael Moon - I can document my Irish heritage. Irish people suffered through white slavery (before many Africans came to the New World) and they suffered again through the genocidal period associated with the "potato famine". Where are my reparations? /sarc/
Gigi Lee - Potato famine was caused by a one-crop agricultural society in Ireland. Potato virus swept through the nation and all the potatoes rotted. Millions of Irish folk starved to death. Resulted in great influx of Irish immigrants to America in mid-19th century. They were demeaned, humiliated, and suffered terribly, not welcomed because they were destitute, starved, and without means. Irish went to work building transcontinental railroad or whatever they could find. Being Catholic was also a strike against them.
Frank D. Banta - Michael Moon: did you know that Irish were frequently hired for work on the plantation deemed too dangerous to risk a valuable slave? It is really long past the point that the truth of American slavery displaces the pure fantasy of abolitionist fiction epitomized by Uncle Tom's Cabin imagined by authors who never set foot on a plantation.
Michael Moon - Yes sir, I did know that. I also know that reparations will not "fix" anything. If a person wants to get ahead in his or her life, he or she will do so with the help of the Lord. Reparations is just another word for extortion via unwarranted guilt.
Betsy Christison - Reparations should be made only between the living if one person exploits another. And that is already done through the courts.
Eric Mills Sims - Something tells me that Mr. Sowell would not agree with giving special tax breaks because one of your ancestors may have been taken advantage of. The Romans conquered England- do the English get it? The Germans conquered France several times , how about them? The jews were taken into captivity several times.
Gigi Lee - Vikings swooped down frequently to the British Isles and captured folks, took them back north and made them slaves. I'm still waiting for my Scots and Irish reparations from the Vikings.
Paul Leedy - This just requires some critical thinking to invalidate the theory .
Rachel Lagafuaina - I have no opinion on the weed thing, there's a lot of arguments to be made around that and I don't know what the major cons are therefore I won't advocate (I am in favor of the cannabis plant and what it can do, though I don't smoke and don't encourage others to). Reparations? No. No one today was a slave (in regards to those specific circumstances, they are however a slave to crap ideologies and SJW bs the government encourages only to divide and milk the resulting circumstaces, not because they care) and considering anyone today can be anything they want as a comment said before, anyone could identify as black (because no one who's asking for reparations knows the true history, origins and extent of slavery) or native or whatever. The government owes everyone for a long list of reasons that won't ever be acknowledged by anyone in power, everyone's a slave to merely their unnecessary taxation and manipulation of... everything. Idk what kind of post this is it's fun to respond to and I love the comments so far xD
Charlene Klepic Patton - And what would a person have to do to be eligible? The Native Americans already have a ton of perks and don't pay taxes!! The blacks have all the perks that other minorities (Indian, Asians don't have, right here in the USA. Affirmative Action! I've seen many non-black, highly qualified co-workers passed over for promotions for blacks. Where is the "fair" line drawn?
Jeff Fairall - It seems to me that since the vast majority of white people didn't have slaves and the vast majority of slave holders were Democrats, it would make sense for Democrats to pay for any reparations. The Republican Party was created to eliminate slavery, so Republicans shouldn't pay anything. Democrats, who happen to be black would basically pay themselves. White Democrats should pay black Republicans reparations.
Mikey Zilkowsky - save yourself a bunch of wasted time. Reparations isn't an economic idea.
Gigi Lee - Dr. Sowell has said that there is no one alive in the world today who hasn't had an ancestor who was a slave and no one alive today who hasn't had an ancestor who owned slaves.
There are more slaves in the world today than ever before, somewhere on the order of 30,000,000.
My 3rd great-grandfather owned 3 slaves. Actually his wife's father willed them to her in 1826, North Carolina.
So all you Reparationist -- just give it over.
Find another cause to do good. Like work to defund Planned Parenthood, that has killed millions of little black babies in the past 40+ years.
David M. Lee - The only reparations they get is a reminder that hundreds of thousands sacrificed their lives including a president to end slavery.
Zagros Madjd-Sadjadi - "My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume V, "Letter to Horace Greeley" (August 22, 1862), p. 388.
Austin Millbarge - Not to be crass, but yes, reparations are a stupid idea.
Zagros Madjd-Sadjadi - The Civil War was never fought to end slavery. It was fought to save the Union. Remember the Union didn't start the war.
Isai Calderon Giron - I thought it was fought to end State rights...
Miles N. Fowler - @Isai Calderon Giron… Perhaps you jest. The Confederate cause was a perversion of the states' right doctrine. The doctrine suffered because of the civil War but it is still part of the Constitution.
Dirk Wichgers Jr. - Let's not assume we're all racial collectivists and concern ourselves with economics that matter in a far away land known as... "Reality"
William McKenzie - How about, no one in the US was ever a slave. The government pays for college for minorities and poorer people. The middle class can't afford it.
Zagros Madjd-Sadjadi - The middle class has the community college and public university systems. The government does not pay for college based on being a minority -- they pay for it exclusively based on wealth/income (or in some minor cases, such as attendance at a military academy, based on merit).
Ted Koehl - Respectfully-reparations have been paid many times over for slavery in America. Payment was the 750,000 men-mostly white, and the 5 million additional casualties ranging from war wounded to civilians damaged by the war.
Marilyn M. Krzus - I would say that was reparations enough--all those lives given to abolish slavery. Enough.
Joseph R. Gallante - What reparations do I get for my Irish great grandparents, who got off the boat in NY, just to be shipped down to Dixie. You know to fight in the Civil War??? Flipping moron!!!
Brent Dillberg - He's trolling, right?
Kevin McGuire - Reparations have already been paid.
Frank D. Banta - I would argue that they fought against federal tyranny, not slavery.
Eddie Wright - Except that you can't argue with dead people.
Ben Berzai - This is the classic "let's get rid of our cobra problem with the mongoose" argument.
One you've rid yourself of the cobra with the mongoose - mongooses, mongeese? - you now have a mongoose problem.
While I can't be upset that you are actively thinking out loud and contributing to discourse, it is highly ironic that it's done on a page named for a man who, if nothing else, teaches us about the unintended consequences of progressive action...to say the least of who would administer this remedy... the government.
This is all notwithstanding the faulty grounds for the argument, in itself.
Matthew Coelho - If reparations are to be paid to ppl that suffered injustice at the hands of others, it would literally be impossible to do. From persian invasions and slave trades to, the mongol empire, the moors etc etc, have all conquered and profited off the misfortunes of others. According to dinesh d souza, the world is a history of land grab and conquest, and no race or culture is innocent of this.
Zagros Madjd-Sadjadi - We SHOULD pay reparations to people who suffer injustice at the hands of others but only those who DIRECTLY suffered. That's the whole purpose of tort law in the first place. However, you can't claim reparations for something that happened to your ancestors (with the single exception of if someone dies, their direct survivors can expect payment).
Matthew Coelho - Is directly, considered within the victims lifetime and are people linked to the victim after the victims lifetime considered applicable. In other words, how close the relation of a person to the victim does 'directly' refer to?
Zagros Madjd-Sadjadi - Directly requires that they be linked to the victim within the victim's lifetime (i.e. be their named survivors in the will [note that if they die intestate, they still have a will but it is drawn up by the government on their behalf). They stand to benefit directly from the estate, which is the entity that actually sues when you have a wrongful death. No one else legally has a claim under tort law.
Marilyn M. Krzus - Maybe Trump will put this to rest finally by using this argument. Well, the Supreme Court...?
Zagros Madjd-Sadjadi - Reparations aren't going anywhere in the court system. The courts have never taken them seriously - not even liberal courts have taken them seriously.
USATODAY.com - Judge dismisses slave reparations case
Juliet Giblin - I do not think reparations are really what is wanted. I think revenge is the real desire. "Victims" would take the money, but it would not provide a lastiing salve.
Omar Merlos - The reparations paid by the us government to my knowledge was in the 80s to Japanese Americans who were in interment camps during ww2.
Miles N. Fowler - There you could put a monetary value on property lost or stolen, and there were specific records of victims and there heirs.
Marilyn M. Krzus - @Miles N. Fowler… True, and most slaves came to this country with not more than the clothes on their backs, so there was no property lost or stolen, other than what they might have had in their home countries, but that wouldn't have benefitted Americans.
Frank D. Banta - Obama already paid Reparations!
Marilyn M. Krzus - Holy crap! Yet another scandal not covered by the MSM. And they wonder why we don't trust them!
Muhammad Rasheed - Calm down. The truth about the Pigford cases
Sean W. Surrey - It won't work because the people who owned slaves, are dead. Unless you count the present day Muslims, who still have slaves, and are the ones who sold them. Then go ahead.
Ray Shelton - Slavery is alien to Anglo culture. Slavery was first brought to American FROM AFRICA where it lies at the heart of African beliefs. "According to colonial records, the first slave owner in the United States was a black man.
Prior to 1655 there were no legal slaves in the colonies, only indentured servants. All masters were required to free their servants after their time was up. Seven years was the limit that an indentured servant could be held. Upon their release they were granted50 acres of land. This included any Negro purchased from slave traders. Negros were also granted 50 acres upon their release.
Anthony Johnson was a Negro from modern-day Angola. He was brought to the US to work on a tobacco farm in 1619. In 1622 he was almost killed when Powhatan Indians attacked the farm. 52 out of 57 people on the farm perished in the attack. He married a female black servant while working on the farm.
When Anthony was released he was legally recognized as a “free Negro” and ran a successful farm. In 1651 he held 250 acres and five black indentured servants. In 1654, it was time for Anthony to release John Casor, a black indentured servant. Instead Anthony told Casor he was extending his time. Casor left and became employed by the free white man Robert Parker.
Anthony Johnson sued Robert Parker in the Northampton Court in 1654. In 1655, the court ruled that Anthony Johnson could hold John Casor indefinitely. The court gave judicial sanction for blacksto own slave of their own race. Thus Casor became the first permanent slave and Johnson the first slave owner.
Whites still could not legally hold a black servant as an indefinite slave until 1670. In that year, the colonial assembly passed legislation permitting free whites, blacks, and Indians the right to own blacks as slaves." Look it up people.
Creeden Monfore - You cannot grant special privilege to one group without denying it to all other groups. Inequality can never result in real equality.
This is the fundamental flaw of your idea, and all social justice crusaders.
Mike Shears - And why limit that to the slavery or conquest of Africans. Certainly if you go back far enough everyone has been affected by conquest and slavery. If one just wants to give reparations for things that happened in the US, how is it that non Americans involved in the slave trade aren't also liable? This seems to amount to America
is obliged to settle everything.
Dan J JayJay - Any idea of reparations is stupid. What about the Irish? What about descendants of those kidnapped from Britain and brought over on boats. Africans were not the only people who didn't come freely or not able to live freely, in the US.
Mike Shears - What about those of us who have to listen to liberal whining? Where's our reparations?
Annis Howard Davis - How about REPARATIONS to Native Americans? HUH? Lands stolen. Tribes DECIMATED and WIPED OFF THE LAND FOREVER. Treaties ignored....still being ignored today!
Ray Shelton - Spare me. 95% of "Indians" did from disease. They were literally stone age savages. They didn't "own" land - and viewed the settlers as simply another tribe to war with. Can't have treaties with savages.
Lloyd Brown - Nonsense. The Great Noble Savages were bums who squatted on the land for thousands of years, fighting and killing each other and never progressing an inch. They held no title to any land so it couldn't be "stolen" from them.
Miles N. Fowler - Davis's idea in general has problems like you cannot give reparations to those who have been completely wiped out, and do you or do you not give reparations to those who are 1/32 Indian and 31/32 white? As to Shelton and Brown's "points," at least in some cases Indians such as the Cherokee had title to lands that were stolen from them - in at least two different states and two different centuries! (Land was stolen from "civilized" Indians in Oklahoma in the early 20th century.)
Ken Miles - Well to be fair, it's in my post. I mean I do clearly say Native Americans.
Ray Shelton - @Miles N. Fowler… Nope. No individual "indian" ever had title to land. They still don't. Land is held in "collective title" which means no title at all. I KNOW BECAUSE I'M ONE OF THOSE 'INDIANS' REGISTERED WITH BIA!!!!!!! I DON'T OWN JACK. I GET A YEAR CHECK FOR A COUPLE OF PENNIES AND CAN'T SELL THE LAND - BECAUSE IT'S OWNED BY "MY TRIBE" WHICH MEANS IT ISN'T OWNED BY ANYONE. MY ANCESTORS WERE STONE AGE SAVAGES.
Ellis Young - They should get 50% off at KFC.
Miles N. Fowler - @Ray Shelton… I don't know if you are Cherokee, but my understanding in the OK case is that individual Cherokees owned farmland and it was systematically stolen from them by Anglos to get the oil rights. This is a particular case, different from other Indian lands where, as you say, the land was not really "owned" in the property rights sense. The Cherokees who were moved to Okla. in the 19th cent. by Andy Jackson, unless I have been misled, also owned farmland as individuals.
Marilyn M. Krzus - @Ray Shelton… And the Indians killed multitudes. I read a biography once of a little white girl who was stolen by the Indians and became their slave, which, I'm sure, happened to many of the white girls and women they abducted if they didn't outright kill them. The descendants of that girl deserve reparations, too.
Daniel Melbourne - I'm entirely in favor of reparations for any person currently living who was a slave, or who has lost property through conquest, and whose oppressors are still living and can be held accountable.
Kevin McGuire - Reparations have been paid. 620,000 Americans died to free the slaves.
Peggy Gianesin - Stefan Molyniex has a few excellent talks on slavery. One I found very enlightening was on South Africa and how it has faded under black rule. Actually Communist rule. They, it becomes clear what kind of rumblings are going on in the black tribe here.....Scary.
Kevin McGuire - How about paying the Irish for something. My goodness they were slaves too. People should just be really thankful they they were born in the United States.
Hope Wells - Sounds like you were "using" when you came up with this idea. First, Blacks today have never been slaves, and Whites today have never owned a slave. Second, Blacks are owed NO reparations because they have experienced no harm from anyone -- they have the same, if not better, protections as anyone in the country. How about addressing their own lifestyle and education choices? Third, almost every race has experienced slavery including Whites all over the world. And, in the US, nobody is paying Native Americans for their slavery history. Nobody of Spanish or Mexican descent is crying for reparation for the lands that were stolen from them. It's time for Blacks to get over it and accept that the past can't be changed or rewritten. Instead, they should create a future instead of crying over the past.
Krista Boston - The fundamental problem therein it lies - how does one document "a link to slavery".... i actually support reparations but for a bit more insidious reason. We could all finally move on...no more victim mentality.
Ken Miles - Now that's an interesting question. I'm not sure, but Native Hawaiians have some offical means of determining ancestry, for various programs in Hawaii like schooling.
You'd have common sense stuff to start of course. Like you can't just move here from Jamaica tomorrow like "i'm here for my free reefer mon!"
PM Mack - Hey are we going to pay Britain for America?
Daniel Melbourne - I think France needs to cough-up for conquering England in 1066 too.
Ken Riehl - Thanks to LBJ, Reparations have been and continue to be paid since 1964. Fifty three years and more than 20 TRILLION DOLLARS later and things haven't changed much...
Brian Bennett - If only the 20 trillion wasted on the "War on Poverty" had been spent on our 20 trillion national debt.
Dirk Wichgers Jr. - That's only if you posit that all descendents of slaves have received reparations in the form of govt assistance. Otherwise, what about those who haven't? I'm not advocating for reparations. Only pointing out that not all descendents of slaves have received reparations in the form of welfare, food stamps, housing subsidies, etc
Ken Riehl - Agreed and yes I had thought of that
Mike Shears - Ok Dirk Wichgers Jr., it's your job to sort out which is which and provide us with a list of those who haven't. We'll wait right here for ya. Mind you that black ppl who aren't descended from slaves don't count as not receiving reparations.
Dirk Wichgers Jr. - Why is it my job? I said I'm not advocating reparations.
Mike Shears - Indeed, yet you brought up the distinction between those who have and those who haven't. I didn't think that was dependent on advocating reparations.
Dirk Wichgers Jr. - The original statement said reparations have been paid in the form of govt paid benefits. I said that if that were the case, then reparations have only been paid to those who have received benefits.
Therefore, to determine who has or hasn't received reparations we would have to distinguish between those who received benefits and those who haven't. I'm not suggesting that we should do this since I:
A) don't believe we should pay reparations
B) if we would, then we wouldn't consider who received welfare because of the impracticality which you point out
Mike Shears - Yea, I know how to read and your claim about those who did or didn't receive reparatiins, doesn't depend on whether you think we should pay reparations. If it does please explain.
Daniel Melbourne - Why stop there....I'm sure the Mongols should pay up for conquering all of Asia....
....and don't even get me started on how much the Ottomans would owe!!!
Glen Barnes - Reparations to blacks is a sign of stupidity and a lack of history. The Arabs ought to pay, they started all the crap. Slavery is a part of history not something anyone is accountable for.....idiots!
Ken Miles - Ah but then you would still be advocated economic social justice! Got to stick to principle.
Glen Barnes - Social justice another freakin left wing whimsical touchy feely BS
Jerry Boatwright - Reparations is just another way for the Federal government to intrude on the American taxpayer and the nation as a whole. If there is any person living who experienced slavery in America then they can demand reparations from anyone who at some point owned slaves in America if these two individuals are alive!
Glen Barnes - Look how LBJ helped....help them stay in a hole for life...
Sanford Wolf Snyder - Who would get the reparations? There is no living former slaves. Reparations would go to those directly affected. Not those numerous generations later. Besides, Native Americans should get reparations before anyone else.
Zagros Madjd-Sadjadi - Actually, my family should get reparations first. The damn Islamic Republic stole about $700 million of our property in Iran and we were DIRECTLY affected.
Scott Lohr - hence the migration of many from the Middle East to southeast Michigan. I grew up with many families.
Zagros Madjd-Sadjadi - Yeah, my father emigrated to this country well before that but yes, most of the rest of my family left after the Islamic Revolution. Iran used to be quite Western in its outlook until the Islamic Republic came about. However, to be fair, if the CIA hadn't meddled in the 1953 Mosaddegh coup d'état, we would probably have had a much different (and better) Middle East right now for all concerned.
Paul Leedy - You don't give reparations to the conquered and the rest we purchased slaves were freed case closed ... just bloviating leftist blah blah blah
Tom Savickas - Who pays for these reparations?
Ellis Young - Casinos
Tom Savickas - Yeah, good idea.
Christine Reed - As if the government should give more $ to blacks so they can by booze & drugs. We already give them boatloads of money thru welfare, public housing, foodstamps, energy asst, medicaid and so on.
Glen Barnes - Dems created a permanent voting base for dems...now working on the Mexicans illegals...
Christine Reed - As if the government should give more $ to blacks so they can by booze & drugs. We already give them boatloads of money thru welfare, public housing, foodstamps, energy asst, medicaid and so on.
Glen Barnes - Dems created a permanent voting base for dems...now working on the Mexicans illegals...
Dirk Wichgers Jr. - @Christine Reed… one doesn't need to stretch a lot to find a racist slant to your comment. Best to correct your grammar to change your meaning but don't try to defend it
Jeff McDaniel - @Dirk Wichgers Jr.... One doesn't need to stretch a lot to find the truth in the statement either
Jeff McDaniel - I agree she shouldn't just say "blacks" because that is a blanket statement and not all black people fall in this category.
Dirk Wichgers Jr. - There's zero truth to the statement so f* off you're junk isn't welcome in this group
Jeff McDaniel - @Dirk Wichgers Jr.... Seriously asshole???
Dirk Wichgers Jr. - Blacks as a group have not received govt benefits that have been wasted on drugs and booze. Therefore there is zero truth to your statement. Not a little bit of truth because some individuals who are black have done this. The only thing that proves is that some individuals who happen to be black have done that. Your nonsense is not mathematically or definitionally correct. Zero truth. Read Sowell, be a fan of Sowell and you will be welcome here.
Dirk Wichgers Jr. - Individual liberty and accountability trumps collectivist thinking
Jeff McDaniel - @Dirk Wichgers Jr… Really? We don't have a problem in this country with inner city blacks, welfare and drugs/ alcohol??? That isn't collectivist thinking you moron those are the facts. If being in denial makes you feel better about yourself fine but don't call me a racist because I'm dealing with the reality of every inner city in this country.
Dirk Wichgers Jr. - My page didn't refresh. I didn't see your comment that you made that not all blacks fall into this category. But I stand by my statement that there's zero truth, not a little truth
Jeff McDaniel - Individual liberty will never happen trapped in a welfare state.
Dirk Wichgers Jr. - Thank God that you and I, as whites, don't have issues with welfare, drugs/ alcohol
Jeff McDaniel - We do....all over the south. But I'm not denying that fact either. Drugs are killing this country and our open border policy is to blame but that is another debate
Muhammad Rasheed - You all's blatantly demonstrated racist hypocrisy is amazing to behold.
It also strengthens my Reparations argument. lol
Zagros Madjd-Sadjadi - No one should receive a payment as a result of their race, ethnicity, religion, gender, or ancestry. Payments should only be rendered due to directly experienced hardship that is caused by the malicious actions of another (or if that hardship results in actual death, their estate, provided it hasn't yet been liquidated).
Muhammad Rasheed - Nonsense, considering slavery, jim crow, and all related atrocities committed were specifically tied to my race, ethnicity, religion, gender, and ancestry.
Conrad Gabbard - Any "Reparations" should begin with those who raided the villages, took people into slavery, broke their will and sold them as slaves. That would be Muslims. The Arabic word for Negro also means slave. According to their prophet (hadith Bukhari, vol. 2, book 24, no. 542): “Horses and slaves owned by a Muslim are tax exempt. It is forbidden to capture a Muslim and make him a slave. If a slave converts to Islam, then there is a benefit in freeing him. But there is no benefit in freeing a non-Muslim slave. Islamic slavery is a blessing because sooner or later the slave or the slave's descendants will convert to Islam in order to be free." How do you think those Muslim harems stay full: job interviews? Is this our fault?
Muhammad Rasheed - Conrad Gabbard wrote: "Any 'Reparations' should begin with those who raided the villages, took people into slavery, broke their will and sold them as slaves. That would be Muslims."
No, that would actually be the White European slave takers, who used barrels of rum to bait the tribes.
Muhammad Rasheed - This topic has nothing to do with the Muslim world, and everything to do with European colonialist greed. We'll deal with the Arabs and their mess afterwards.
Curran Kemp - So, if a person if of mixed race, do they pay it back to themselves?
Dirk Wichgers Jr. - Yes
Curran Kemp - I guess I can move money from one of my accounts to another; that is going to drive my bookie nuts.
Tonya Craft - If you find any former slaves, let them know I want written thank you notes for my ggg grandfather who fought for the Union.
Zagros Madjd-Sadjadi - My great-great-great-grandfather (on my mother's side) fought for the Union as well, so I concur with your sentiments.
Muhammad Rasheed - Immediately after slavery, the Southerners donned their hoods and the Lynching Era began. White Supremacists began their decade’s long terror of Blacks, stripped away all the Reconstruction gains, and instituted the jim crow system.
Do you wish to be thanked for that, too?
Tonya Craft - @Muhammad Rasheed… My Union army ggg grandfather was a Cherokee Indian. He did NOT live in the south, so why apply that BS to him? For the record also, HIS son married a woman who was, at least, half black American! My dad's family originated in Appalachia, land of scary poverty and wacked-out social mores. Should I be punished because they moved to Ohio to find employment? Another family segment is Irish. Perhaps I should demand the English government to pay reparations for keeping the Irish in poverty, stealing their lands, and booting them from the country? Generations later, I came along. I am an American mutt. I am not all one thing or another, even if I have pale (Irish) skin, and kinky (until I straighten it) hair. I worked at a local school, and made a point to let students know that, unless they just stepped off a boat or a plane, they, too, were mutts. A comic once suggested that reparations should be paid by everybody handing a dollar bill to the person to his right. I tend to agree. Stewing in bitterness helps NObody.
Muhammad Rasheed - Tonya Craft wrote: "My Union army ggg grandfather was a Cherokee Indian. He did NOT live in the south, so why apply that BS to him?"
Assuming this was true, why would I include a Cherokee tribesman in my "BS?" I think you misinterpreted my point.
Tonya Craft wrote: "For the record also, HIS son married a woman who was, at least, half black American! My dad's family originated in Appalachia, land of scary poverty and wacked-out social mores. Should I be punished because they moved to Ohio to find employment?"
I suggest you stop considering it "punishment" and embrace the concept of Justice. Stewing in bitterness about it won't help anyone, after-all.
Tonya Craft wrote: "Another family segment is Irish."
Tonya Craft wrote: "Perhaps I should demand the English government to pay reparations for keeping the Irish in poverty, stealing their lands, and booting them from the country?"
I fail to see why that would be relevant to this topic, since the subject is specifically about Black Reparations in the American system for the atrocities committed against that particular people. Maybe you should start a new thread to deal with Irishman concerns?
Tonya Craft wrote: "Generations later, I came along. [...] I tend to agree."
I think the self-proclaimed "mutts" should be exempt from the Reparations program in order to keep down the confusion levels then. #SolvedIt
Tonya Craft - Because all these generationS later, it would be nothing but punishment against a subsequent people who did NOTHING against another subsequent group of people. Again, I'm "white" to anybody who doesn't know me, or my heritage. If I were unable to document, to your satisfaction, my genetic make-up, I would be labeled guilty. And in being found guilty, a punishment would be levied against me. Progress isn't made by going backward and trapping people in perpetual hatred. I would LOVE to address these matters, and others, In fact, I'd love to wring them dry and toss them into the faces of proponents whose brains stop at "reparations," without considering the complexities.
Muhammad Rasheed - Reparations doesn't stop at slavery; that's where my study of the matter differs with Dr. Sowell's. That's also where I take issue with the idea that later generations among the oppressor class did "NOTHING." They certainly did. There was quite a bit of history missed in Eurocentric schools that barely mention my people at all. I do not blame you for this, but it does make your wordy but passionate rants lack any kind of substance at all.
Tonya Craft - The "oppressor class" is who? White people, right? I'm certain your brain isn't swirling with images of Japanese or Arab peoples. I apologize for my "wordiness." Yes, I am VERY passionate about this and related subjects because they're ill-considered BS that serve to only further separate people.
Muhammad Rasheed - The people are separated by design so that the true "super-predators" can prey upon them for big profits. My protests against this system does not make the problem worse... in fact, it is only by protesting and fighting will the problem be fixed.
Zagros Madjd-Sadjadi - Legally, slavery does not exist in the United States or any place within its jurisdiction "except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted." The only people who can receive reparations, therefore, for slavery are those prisoners who have been exonerated and thus found that their convictions should never have occurred for reasons of innocence.
David M. Lee Mike Shears - Settlements in millions are paid to prisoners who were wrongly convicted.
Zagros Madjd-Sadjadi Prisoners are "slaves of the state" according to the Virgina Supreme Court in 1871. Here is the 13th Amendment, which proves that prisoners can be considered slaves: "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."
Section 3 The Prison Economy - Prison labor - Prison Index | Prison Policy Initiative
Mike Shears - But prioners aren't slaves Zagros Madjd-Sadjadi. And it doesn't follow that prisoners are slaves because the 13th amendment mentions the idea that slavery can be used as a punishment.
Also last I checked this isn't 1871, but maybe you could find an older ruling.
Zagros Madjd-Sadjadi - According to the Virginia Supreme Court in 1871, they are, Mr. Shears. If you are required to work without pay, you are a slave. If you choose to work without pay, you are a volunteer.
Zagros Madjd-Sadjadi - If you are required to work WITH pay, you are in involuntary servitude.
Zagros Madjd-Sadjadi - Alternatively, you COULD argue that if you can be paroled you are in involuntary servitude. However, if you are on death row or are in prison for life without parole, then you would definitely be a slave.
Mike Shears - So no law after 1871 applies? It's rather absurd to insist on that. But I like how you start the problem in the middle then move to your pet theory.
Zagros Madjd-Sadjadi - Listen, I am not arguing that we SHOULD consider prisoners to be slaves of the state, I am merely pointing out that we legally CAN do it:
Zagros Madjd-Sadjadi - By the way, it is not MY pet theory. It is the belief of a number of legal scholars on the 13th Amendment. Slavery Is Still Legal in the United States
Mike Shears - No the question is whether prisoners are slaves. This was your point. As to the pet theory, it hardly matters if someone else originates or agrees. A pet theory is a theory one adopts and and gives special treatment to.
Zagros Madjd-Sadjadi - Slaves can have rights, Mr. Shears. That isn't part of the definition. The states defines those rights, just as an owner does for his slaves.
Mike Shears - Are you next going to argue that Dred Scott is a useful precedent?
Zagros Madjd-Sadjadi - Dred Scott is not applicable, Mr. Shears. The question isn't the status of slaves in the old South but rather whether prisoners can be considered slaves of the state. They can be.
Zagros Madjd-Sadjadi - Slaves therefore can have rights if granted by the authority that regulates slavery.
Mike Shears - Uh no it was the dred scott court that decided that africans did not have citezenship and thus could not bring his case. This decision was made in 1857. So we know it's consistent with you understanding of constitutional law.
Zagros Madjd-Sadjadi - Go back and READ the Dred Scott decision. It made a distinction between state and national citizenship. Dred Scott (which was wrongly construed in any case) is not relevant.
Zagros Madjd-Sadjadi - Incidentally, non-citizens CAN bring lawsuits into federal court, so again it fails.
Zagros Madjd-Sadjadi - Why don't we step back a bit? Will you at least acknowledge that prisoners can be considered to be under conditions of involuntary servitude?
Mike Shears - Uhm so your arguing Dred Scott had local but not national citezenship? Dred Scott ruled that he was property and what non citezens CAN do has no bearing on whether he or any other slave COULD bring and enforce such decisions. A prisoner can bring suit against the prison and if he wins then the ruling gets enforced.
Zagros Madjd-Sadjadi - I already proved by citation that slaves could bring lawsuits. See Quock Walker v. Jennison, a 1781 case successfully brought by a Massachusetts slave against his owner.
Zagros Madjd-Sadjadi - Here is even more proof that slaves could enact lawsuits:
Michał Berezowski - ...why should anyone who's alive today, and never did anything wrong re: "the slavery", pay anything to anyone, who wasn't alive and hasn't suffered anything, re: "the slavery", tell me again?
Craig Baker - Free money is a cancer to the soul. Nothing good comes from it. Reparations are impossible and a completely ludicrous idea. If given, the next day there would be a demand for more or some other idiotic "fix" for some person that really just does not want to work in the first place.
Dale Hall - Once you pay extortion, it never stops!
Gregory Conterio - in order to accept the notion of "reparations," you must also accept the idea of inherited debt. You 'owe" certain people of your generation for "crimes" committed by your ancestors against theirs.
This is a preposterous notion.
Jasmine Harris - Well reparations isn't dumb in theory but it's really not necessary at this point. Furthermore, not all black people currently living in the us are from slave origins. Most African Americans who are screaming about reparations only want the government to dole out tax payer money to every black person here in the us today. While in reality that wouldn't happen. Only those who had slave ancestors, or had ancestors who were bound men at some point would be eligible for those payments. So the people.screaming about reparations still wouldn't be satisfied. It might work if done properly but right now there are more important things for Americans to worry about.
Jasmine Harris - Not to mention that many families with slave holder ancestors would not be able to pay reparations.
Muhammad Rasheed - It wouldn't have to come directly out of the pockets of individual families, but be allocated from the gov. Divert some of those $trillions from the war machine budget.
Zagros Madjd-Sadjadi - Requiring descendants to pay for the sins of their ancestors by denying them their inheritance is known as "corruption of blood" and it is illegal under US law.
James Parriott - Since when have SJW cared what is legal?
Zagros Madjd-Sadjadi - Since they cannot actually get it to occur unless it is legal.
Kyle Nowakowski - Define slavery and conquest. My suspicion is that if government exists, force or the threat of force has been used against most people at varying degrees, because that's what government is
Derrel Carter - There can be no reparations for the dead! Because they are DEAD! The people alive by four or five generations past the event have no claims on said reparations, as it never happened to them. Who would pay them, the people who purchased "property" legally, the people that enslaved them in the 1st place or the people that sold them? Slavery is still going on in the musloid world how about you consider putting it to an end altogether as a life's work? Instead of trying to profit from the grief and anguish of those from the depths of history!
Paul Jackson - So If my Grand-parents emigrated to the US from Canada, do I get off? If they smuggled runaway slaves into Canada do I get credit for that? How about Muslims that sold negro slave to White slave ship captains? Do Former slaves who's decedents became slave owners get less than non-slave owning former slave's?
Art Jones - I'm sure there are a number of descendants of slaves (and of slaves owners) who are currently selling weed tax-free. :D
On a more serious note, I'd point out that we already do this with Indian casinos, and it hasn't improved their lot much. The primary effect of these "correctives" is to assuage liberals' artificial guilt.
Ross Carter –
Steve Emery - Thank you Ross Carter for providing factual data to offset the ridiculous narratives being perpetrated on the American people, it's your presentation of material that will wake America up from their long slumber in ignorance?
Muhammad Rasheed - Considering we're Americans discussing American issues, what does this trivial Sowell point have to do with the actual topic? Are Ross or Steve North African slave descendants? No? Then how in the world is this meme's trivia "offsetting" the point of this discussion?
Do y'all ever try to make sense? Just say: "I'm not interested in seeing Black Americans get a chance to be economically equal with Whites."
Ross Carter - @Muhammad Rasheed… I would argue that Points Steve and I mention prove without a doubt we are interested in equal opportunity. It's the ridiculous victim mentality and breakdown of the family that are the real problems . Of course people like you who jump to assumptions about people's intent don't help either.
Muhammad Rasheed - The "breakdown of the family" were tactics used against the Blacks by a racist system. We were allowed to have the long sought Civil Rights, but the potential of them were immediately sabotaged by backdoor deals made by LBJ and his cronies.
Define "victim mentality" so we can address your "who jump to assumptions about people's intent" properly.
Muhammad Rasheed - The points you and Steve mentioned proved without doubt you wish only to distract from this topic so it can never be discussed from a point of solution, since you are uninterested in righting those wrongs.
Ross Carter - @Muhammad Rasheed… No the breakdown of the family is also a personal choice. The welfare system incentives this breakdown but nobody is forcing mothers to have children with multiple men. Nobody is forcing 70 % plus if the fathers to be out of the home. Anyone focused on the " system" and not pounding the realities are only interested in helping themselves. " righting those wrongs " ???? Should the black slave traders and black slave owners be part of this " correction of wrongs " What about white indentured servants ? What about the hispanics and Native Americans who took each other as slaves. Certainly whites all around the world have been enslaved . Just where does this insanity you purpose start and end ?
Ross Carter -
Muhammad Rasheed - Reparations isn't just for slavery, it's for all related atrocities up to the resent day that built upon it. From slavery to jim crow to White Supremacist terrorism in the lynching era, all the way to today's Mass Incarceration era. All of it.
Hopefully the end result of such an expensive program is that y'all leave my folks alone for once.
Ross Carter - @Muhammad Rasheed… By the way since this is the Thomas Sowell page and not the Al Sharpton page ; can you back up your position with quotes from Sowell ?
Muhammad Rasheed - Since I haven't provided any Al Sharpton quotes, you may consider the requirement met.
Ross Carter - @Muhammad Rasheed… I can provide his quotes that back up your position if needed ? Sounds like you should study a bit more and post a bit less ?
Muhammad Rasheed - That's 100% how I feel about the nonsense you're spewing. I guess that makes us even, eh?
Ross Carter - @Muhammad Rasheed… I guess . Thomas Sowell and I see it one way and you and the " Reverend " lol see it another. Even I guess ??
Steve Emery - @Ross Carter… wow, his rant completely validates my post! Lol, that was easy.... might I add Muhammad that Muslim's and Africans are the originators of slavery, actually presented it to our country, hope you're ready to pay your share?
Steve Emery - @Muhammad Rasheed…
Muhammad Rasheed - @Steve... The enemy responsible for slavery and jim crow Sowell mention's in the meme, is the same one responsible for the destruction of my family in the post-Civil Rights era. Sharpton and his treacherous crew are definitely part of that group and mean only harm. But every group has their sellouts...
Muhammad Rasheed - It's possible that the African did originate slavery in the impossibly distant past, since he is the oldest group on earth, the originator of human civilization. But his slavery was nothing like America's "peculiar institution," that delegated a particular racial group to permanent chattel. The world had never seen anything so cruel before, and obscene profits were amassed from this system. Under my own people, and even under the greedy Arab, I was never not considered a human being like I was under you. Your comments about my people in this thread still reveal the enduring filth of your particular version of the slave practice, and it's racist legacy that even now you are reluctant to release.
Ross Carter - @Muhammad Rasheed… As with most confused liberals you feel the volume of your words makes up for your flawed content. Very selective outrage on your world history. Now let's flip the coin. In the last 200 years name a people and a philosophy that has elevated man , offered more opportunity and provided unmatched charity to the whole world. ? It's funny you focus on a small part of history ( that almost all races are guilty of and some still are by the way ) while ignoring the incredible fruits of the very system you demonize to stir up hate and division.
Muhammad Rasheed - You must be one of these "confused liberals" you mentioned, since 103 words later AND a Reagan meme, and you still didn't manage to say a damned thing.
Muhammad Rasheed - I'm going to chalk it up to magic.
Ross Carter - @Muhammad Rasheed… Simple question what country and philosophy matches the freedom and charity of America ? Simple statement your selective view on history and mans suffering is wrong.
Ross Carter - @Muhammad Rasheed... - Jeopardy music playing .....
Steve Emery - Crickets, lol...
Muhammad Rasheed - lol I have no selective view of history and the suffering of man. What I have is a commitment to my own people's empowerment and economic inclusion. If I don't fight for my own people, no one will.
The idea that I shouldn't focus on my own group, but should expand my vision to All Lives Matter, so that you lot may continue to prey upon my people when my focus is elsewhere, is typical. I reject your worldview as incompatible with my own.
Ross Carter -
Vinnie Williams - Paying reparations causes a few issues just like paying taxes.
It's THEFT plain and simple.
Especially since the race in question isn't actually at a point of suffrage unlike the ancestors.
When you apply a garnishment against income it creates disparity against income earned.
Instead of having a realized income at 100%. With taxes, reparations, fees, etc what is realized is fractions of that.
So one would work more to achieve closer to the original target income of 100%.
This is what accelerates the rate of inflation and increases debt.
Michael A Thomas - Stupid idea. Blood money?
Jeff McDaniel - As a white American citizen I'm really sick and tired of busting my ass everyday only to see everyone else getting free food, rent, business loans and the like. It's theft, it's racist and it's totally wrong on every level!
Dirk Wichgers Jr. - I know a Japanese immigrant to this country who busts get ass harder than anyone I know. She had to be cajoled by supportive friends, and on the brink of actual real persistent hunger, before she accepted subsidized rent. She's not white. Her benefits aren't based on racism against your whiteness.
Jeff McDaniel - @Dirk Wichgers Jr… No but the system is. I can't get welfare in California because of my skin color and I don't get free business loans because I was born here. I don't care about your Japanese immigrant friend and if she works here fell on hard times and needs some help that is fine with me. That isn't what I was talking about at all. The discussion is about black reperations thus me mentioning my skin color. Otherwise I wouldn't. I live in SoCal and I'm surrounded by illegal aliens on welfare. During the 2007 crash I lost everything I owned. I knew for a fact the black people living next to me were on HUD and foodstamps. The illegals across the street were getting it too.The one time in my life I really needed help they offered me 50 bucks a week. 50 bucks a week when my illegal neigbors were getting $1250 a month for rent plus foodstamps. I have payed into the system my whole life. I'm a citizen and I'm told to pound sand while illegals get afree ride. That is what I was talking about. That and the fact that people who come here from another country get free business loans. Why is that? I have been paying taxes here my whole life. If anyone is getting free shit it should be me.
Annie Hagan - @Jeff McDaniel… You should put your story out there and make sure everyone reads it. It takes a lot of guts to write your personal story, it makes the story and problem so clear. (I'm fortunate to now live in a state- actually, county) we we allow no illegals. When we did most of them were terriffic, really hardworking, no welfare, ever.Great citizens but still to live in place like CA. would be unbearable.
Dirk Wichgers Jr. - @Steve Ross... She was divorced by her husband who took the kids out of state and left her with nothing. Her shitty court appointed lawyer ended up getting a result where she had to pay child support to her dead beat husband.
She didn't know what were the consequences to her immigration status after the divorce. She was afraid to ask in case she would be deported, in which case she possibly wouldn't see her kids again for a dozen years or more.
She fell victim to an employer who exploits immigrants with questionable or illegal immigration status. He violated all kinds of laws and simple decency by under paying her, taking her tip money, etc. This is when she was friendless (since she didn't know many people yet) and desperately poor and hungry.
At this time she would see the restaurant she worked at throwing away food at the end of the day. She contemplated packing away a little rice and vegetable moments before it went to the garbage, so she could sneak it home to have something to eat. She didn't because she considered it stealing and she's too honest, to a fault.
Eventually she made a friend or two at work and in her apartment building. This wasn't easy because he English was very limited at the time and wasn't encountering any other Japanese people to befriend.
She didn't know how to address and fix or maintain a legitimate immigration status.
She went a couple years without seeing her kids which kept her in a state of severe depression. Again her dead beat husband violated the terms of the divorce which required him to send the kids to her a couple times a year, etc. She continued to pay $300 per month in child support.
Meanwhile the husband stayed unemployed while living with his new wife, who's $100k+ salary wasn't considered by the court.
Her friends did give her money and food. Her friends did help her fix her immigration status which helped her get a new better job at a corporate restaurant chain.
She finally was convinced by her friends that she's not gaming the system by getting reduced rent from govt subsidized housing. Every penny that she made that was above what she needed by eating the absolute least expensive food possible was saved up so she could finally pay for her kids to visit.
Meanwhile dead beat husband has patents of decent wealth (dad - retried military Colonel and attorney; mom a big city MD). Those grandparents spoiled the kids financially while my friend was still sending them $300 per month which was, for certain long stretches of time, over 25℅ of her take home pay when she's paying $700 monthly rent. Do the math.
All this had occurred before I meet her. By the time I met her, things had stabilized for her.
I gave her lots of support. Financial, emotional and practical help like finding free dental care from a Catholic university; free legal help from a legal assistance group known as the Sojourners, etc.
Her English is better. Her knowledge of restaurant business is improved. She keeps switching jobs to better restaurants.
She is now a highly respected head server and manager of a high end restaurant in a big restaurant market. Her native knowledge of sushi and other seafood and other cuisine in general earns her big tips from plenty of wealthy customers who make reservations asking for her by name.
She actually never accepted unemployment benefits, food stamps or welfare. She grudgingly accepted the subsidized rate for rent out of sheer necessity.
She met her husband when she served in the Japanese Navy, he was a US Marine. He was a fantastic guy at the time.
She was in the Navy to pay for her college. Her mother offered to pay for her college but she knew if she accepted then that would leave no money for her younger brother to go to the superior high school he had qualified for.
This woman is more of an American hero who has contributed more to our county than most white, native American citizens.
Now that you have the whole story, (actually there are so many more details about her that would only serve to make her more saintly) do you think that I'm an ass and she should just "get her friends" to help her?
Ron Beverly - If you read 'Black Rednecks and White Liberals' recall Dr. Sowell discounts that the plight of the black community and other issues are a legacy of slavery. There are other more probable causations far too complex to detail here. Continue to read more of Dr. Sowell's books and you will gain greater insight.
Sean W. Surrey - Basically,Dr. Sowell says, I never owned any slaves and you never picked any cotton. Case closed.
Ross Carter - lol perfect !
Thomas Galindo - How far do we go back? The mew world to the Indians (note before Americans), the new world to the Irish. The Germans to the romans? Not tying to be facetious but where does it start or end. Second, if you look at statistics let's look at someone getting money, windfall, even tax breaks. Majority of lotto winners go bankrupt. Over 70% of NBA and NFL players go bankrupt. Invest 60% of MLB. Money isn't the problem. Third, my life was tough due to what was done it not done to my ancestors, I want $ too. This is everyone's story at one time or another. So, I can't agree with any reparations.
Jeff McDaniel - Just back far enough so that American inner city blacks get some more of our money
Stephen Randall Sullivan - How about Irish slaves? Do we get reparations?
Jeff McDaniel - Absolutely not....you already get "white privilege" Lol!
Justin Lea - That's another part of the problem. People don't realize that there were as many white slaves, as black.
Ross Carter - @Justin Lea… Yep and just finished one of the many books I like about the American west. Hispanics took Indian slaves. Indians took other Indians, and whites, and Hispanic slaves. I suspect you could find every race both guilty and victimized.
Jeff McDaniel - @Ross Carter… That was the way of the world. It is not a reflection of you me our country or our forefathers. It's just the way things were. Why can't people understand that?
Annie Hagan - Stephen Randall Sullvan Nope, you get nothing. Peole dont even know that the Irish were the first slaves in America and there were far more of them than Africans. Education them and tell blacks to suck it up.
Justin Lea - Once again, straying away from fair and equal taxation. Reparations are inconceivably the worst proposal I've ever heard. I don't owe anyone anything. None of my ancestors owned slaves, nor is anyone alive today, a victim of slavery. Do we really want to continue "entitlements"? Everyone wants something given to them just because -
Hope Wells - Some Blacks, not all, wish to continue the "victim" role because without it, they become fully responsible for their situation in life. It's a harsh realization to own that one is responsible for their own life.
Gigi Lee - How would we ever know who was a descendant of a slave in the U.S.? What would it cost how long would it take, to ascertain the heritage of every person who got in the queue to claim a reparation because some long ago ancestor might have or might not have been a slave 300 years ago. Just because a person has physical traits of an African nature, whatever that might be? What are you actually paying them for? What did they do to deserve that the federal government should take money from a working American and give it to another who did nothing to deserve it? There were more African slaves in Europe than in U.S. If one of those slaves descendants has migrated at some point in time in the past 300 years, are we colonists going to do reparation for them? How about all the slaves, some of whom were white, from the British empire all around the world "that the sun never sets on"?? If they have a descendant living in the U.S. do they also get a kickback from the American taxpayer?
I've done some family research and talked with many people also so engaged. I'll warrant that half the people in this country don't know the maiden name of their grandmothers. So how you think we can ascertain the names and descendacy of people who in many cases had no surname and took the name of their owners?
Talk about reparation. My 6th great-grandfather was twice severely wounded in the Revolutionary War. Eventually his wounds contributed to his early death at age 56, according to his two brothers. I think I should be given reparation for having lost the benefit of the love and relationship of that grandfather. Why not, if we are taking that road???
It's all ridiculous and implausible.
Justin Lea - We could also speak of affirmative action. Things like this are divisive, and build resentments. Not a good way to improve racial conditions. Thomas Sowell hasn't been a fan of either, I believe.
Ross Carter - Not to mention that affirmative action ( like many leftist positions) is supported by these people in the public square , but in their personal life they want the best doctors , builders etc that money can buy. Hypocrisy ..... I'm for it as long as others deal with the consequences.
David M. Lee - Affirmative action is using a wrong to make things right. Horrendous social practice. Better to build skills than to accomodate the lack of them due to past injustice.
Catherine McGuinness - If you look at history, it seems that every human group on planet earth were oppressed for one reason or another (religious beliefs, economic reasons, etc). Some groups absorbed into others (for example, Normans in Ireland). Some of that kind of thing is currently going on in the USA. Most Americans are a mix. In fact, I had my DNA tested. Turns out I have many African American cousins. Surprisingly, I have thousands of distant cousins with southern roots (my direct family lines came through New England). All and all, I'm finding we are more connected than we think we are. Most of us are from the historically oppressed people as well as the ruling elite and/or the people who lived with the support of the ruling elite. An amazing mix of both sides.
Jayneann Biggoose - lets remember too many blacks owned slaves. Slavery existed because of a black taking a black to court and asking the man be his slave. Must first find out slave owners names,find out which blacks actually had ancestors who were slaves,it is probably a good idea for them to find out which black tribe SOLD them to european or muslim slave dealers. It will never be figured out. Get over it.
Justin Lea - Correct. Are they still entitled if the slave owner was black? Many, many reasons, for reparations to not even need debate - unless to explain all of this to the under-educated masses.
Steven Bowers - If you go back far enough, just about everyone has been involved in conquest and slavery. Do we all get the discount, or should we just forget about it?
Glen Barnes - Bottom line folks....Blacks have been hosed by the government and media. Playing the race and color card has brought on most of our problems today. BO has lifted the division between races to higher levels. We need to acknowledge his BS and narcissism as the problem of late. We as a collective nation are the best in the world. We are torn and played against each other by these elitist. Put your shit or get your shit together.....we really are better than this asshole ever dreamed......
James Alex Mckinin - Reparations from whom?
Alan L. Falk - From Whom? Easy-peasy answer: anyone you can steal or extort the money from... pass a law, change the tax rules... Done!
But the REAL Question should be this one:
....and To Whom?! Current slaves? Children of Current Slaves?
First try to discuss 'reparations' in terms of WTF you're trying to 'repair' or 'compensate anyone FOR' and THEN discuss Who should GET such Payments and WHY.
Otherwise you just failed to clear the minimum hurdles for Critical Thinking on a complex subject...
But don't worry... if you can't clear that hurdle, you're certainly not alone... :(
James Alex Mckinin - @Alan L. Falk… maybe there should be another sit-in. It sure cleared the air on that pesky gun control issue.
Conrad Gabbard - Just lazy scum looking for excuses for more handouts. The Muslims were - and still are - the slave catchers/makers and traders. Why not whine to them for payback?
Zagros Madjd-Sadjadi - Technically, it wasn't just Muslims who sold Africans into slavery (in fact, very few Muslims sold slaves to the Europe or the Americas - the vast majority of their trade was with the Middle East, due to prohibitions against selling slaves to non-Muslims), so it isn't fair to single them out when it comes to the Atlantic Slave Trade (though admittedly the Arab slave trade to the Middle East was arguably larger than the Atlantic slave trade ever was)
Indeed, with the exception of a few that were kidnapped by Europeans, the Atlantic slave traders were all Africans (the majority were actually Christians or practiced tribal religions).
Zagros Madjd-Sadjadi - Here are some more comparisons between the Atlantic slave trade and the Islamic slave trade:
Conrad Gabbard - @Zagros Madjd-Sadjadi… Muslims have been re-defining their history for centuries. Fortunately, the doctrine is there for all to see: hadith Bukhari, vol. 2, book 24, no. 542 - (Mohammed) “Horses and slaves owned by a Muslim are tax exempt. It is forbidden to capture a Muslim and make him a slave. If a slave converts to Islam, then there is a benefit in freeing him. But there is no benefit in freeing a non-Muslim slave. Islamic slavery is a blessing because sooner or later the slave or the slave's descendants will convert to Islam in order to be free."
Khadija bint Khuwaylid (c.555-619): Muhammad’s elderly, monied first wife, 15-years his senior; with help from her Gnostic cousin, convinced him his Epileptic seizures (first noted when he was 4-years old) were not signs of insanity, but divine selection of him as a prophet: she became his first convert. - It's all in the doctrine!!! Too bad Muslims are kept ignorant. Divine Deceit and unlimited cruelty were certainly not factors in the moon-god Mohammed's father Abdullah was consecrated to as a child. What "god," exactly, do Muslims worship?
Zagros Madjd-Sadjadi - That doesn't address the point I was making, Conrad. I simply was making two extremely important points: (1) there was a slave trade that was just as big, if not bigger, going to the Middle East that the Muslims were running and (2) the Muslims were not the major players in the Atlantic slave trade because they were too busy enslaving just about everyone and sending them to the Middle East.
As to your other statements, you will note that I have not quoted any Islamic sources, only Western ones and furthermore, none of your statements are responsive to any point that I made, so they will be ignored.
Kenneth Williams - The only time in history the US government paid restitution was to the Japanese Americans that were confined to interment camps. The restitution was paid directly to the ones that were confined and no one else. There is not a single living person that was (legally) enslaved in the US. No restitution is owed.
Zagros Madjd-Sadjadi - Though, to be fair, we should have given the Japanese Americans who were interned a lot more in restitution.
Kenneth Williams - Perhaps, but we've never paid restitution to descendants. That was my point.
Zagros Madjd-Sadjadi - I agree, Kenneth. That is because restitution is based on tort law. The only way that a descendant can receive restitution is if the person was killed in the activity. Thus, it would have been perfectly proper to pay restitution to the closest living relative of a person who died at the hands of a slave owner but only if that relative had been alive at the time of the decedent's death.
Hugh Scott Winter McGillivray - If we paid far distant relatives reparations for past treatment then I would file against the British for forcing my relatives to move to
Jeremy Poncy - I support reparations not just for black Americans but for all Americans under one condition. We will cut you a $50,000 check and all you have to do is give up your American citizenship, leave the county and never return. Does this sound extreme? Consider this: the average welfare per year per family is between $40,000 and $50,000. You think America is so oppressive? You think Cuba is better? Prove it. Take this check and never come back. Liberals would leave this country in mass. We could single handedly change face of the electorate forever.
Zagros Madjd-Sadjadi - $50,000 won't be anywhere near sufficient to cause people to give up their citizenship and never return. Now if you make it $5,000,000... (remember you even said that they can get $40K-$50K per year so why would they take a one time check of the same amount?)
Jeremy Poncy - You're presupposing that people who think they live in one of the most oppressive nations on earth while living in the most tolerant and (classically) liberal country to ever grace the earth are rational. These people aren't rational. People engage in short sighted behavior all time.
Zagros Madjd-Sadjadi - Not THAT short-sighted, Jeremy. You need to up the ante.
Zagros Madjd-Sadjadi - Those aren't reparations, Jeremy. That's a bribe.
Jeremy Poncy - Reparations have always been bribes. The welfare state is a bribe.The entire Democrat platform is bribes. The Democrat mantra is "vote for me and I'll give you free stuff."
Zagros Madjd-Sadjadi - Reparations are not bribes when they are true reparations (i.e., they are paid to individuals who have directly suffered losses).
Jeremy Poncy - And who determines who has directly suffered losses?
Janie Zommick - REPARATIONS!>!>?? Let's start with the Jews, then. Shall we begin with Egypt, then the Cossacks, EVERY COuntry where Jews have lived and been PERSECUTED, Rejected, robbed, murdered or denied ACCESS including the USA (who wouldn't accept the ships that brought Jews fleeing the Holocaust).....I could keep going, Folks ----LEARN your History,, before it is gone forever by the LIBERALS!
Janie Zommick - Jews: And who have ALWAYS pulled themselves up from the throes of poverty, BY THEIR OWN EFFORTS, not expecting ANYTHING FROM ANYONE, knowing how much they have been hated EVERYWHERE they have gone (except Israel). They do it by HARD WORK and STUDY! And they ask NOTHING from their neighbor- except to leave them be free~
Tim Key - Napoleon was asked one time if he believed in God and why. His answer was something like this, yes and the reason is simply the existence of the Jews. If you think about it what other people can say they have been in existence for the same length of time. None but the Jew. So many times through history kingdoms and nations have attempted to exterminate the Jew but to no avail. Out numbered, out equipped but still since the time of Abraham they have prevailed. There is a god who has a plan and that plan includes the Hebrew nation.
Tim Key - Napoleon was asked one time if he believed in God and why. His answer was something like this, yes and the reason is simply the existence of the Jews. If you think about it what other people can say they have been in existence for the same length of time. None but the Jew. So many times through history kingdoms and nations have attempted to exterminate the Jew but to no avail. Out numbered, out equipped but still since the time of Abraham they have prevailed. There is a god who has a plan and that plan includes the Hebrew nation.
Janie Zommick - @Tim Key… ain't history grand? ....we must hold onto it,,,since the Libs/Progressives intend to wipe that out too~
Carl Fetterman - Many whites arrived here as indentured servants or under other tough circumstances. Almost everyone has slavery, persecution, or genocide somewhere in their past. We can't correct the errors of the past. We need to make certain that everyone has an equal chance going forward. Reparations for things that were done to distant relatives is unjust to to the current population, and not a logical thing to do.
Devorah Stewart - equal chance mean no more affirmative action. Double standards have to end.
Brent D Amundson - I attended 12 years of Public School....I want REPARATIONS!
Jerry Smith - irish slavery ad related breeding mandated by the masters could bring in Somme nice $ in reparations. How we we monetize these bads?
OK let's calculate these black reparations. Do noit forget to deduct dead whities during the civil war. And all the special benefit given blacks for the last 40 years. Lots of preferential treatment needs to be monetised. Of course economic slavery is in full force for all of us. Lots of work here for well meaning accountant s
Walter Eldredge - Reparations would have been appropriate for those who were originally abducted, but they are all gone. As for the people of today - explain to me how you are worse off living in America than if you were living in sub-Saharan Africa?
Brent D Amundson - If we are to pay reparations, we should be culturally sensitive and pay it in local currency....Coconuts, Lion Skins or Elephant Tusks. ...:)
James Alex Mckinin - Ivory OFF LIMITS!
Brent D Amundson - Lets givem American Prized Goods - Junk Food n Fast Food ....20 Year All You can eat gift card...or or..let Starbucks Pony Up!...:)
Janie Zommick - Ha ha ha ha CLEVER!!
Brent D Amundson - Doctor Livingston - famous African Explorer..."God Bless Africa, God Help them if Africans get Control of it"
Edwin Sierra - If you give restitution to anyone start with indians, not the ones from India, so sit down Raja, the Native American ones. Eventually you'll get around to my group the Taino indians of Puerto Rico. I will expect enough money to fund a casino ;-)
Charlie Kryder - Reparations for slavery were made in blood between 1861 and 1865. No more are necessary.
Jeremy Poncy - @Thank you Charlie Kryder. There is nothing that annoys me more than a discussion about slavery that ignores the Civil War. It is a one sided story to discuss the sins of slavery without talking about the heavy price paid for redemption in blood. Many black people talk as though they freed themselves and it wasn't the righteous indignation of white men willing to die to end that barbaric practice that is the cause of their liberty.
DM LM Pesta - You Bet! Important for these money grubbers to consider before demanding their "rights"
Charlie Kryder - I couldn't have stated it better myself than you did.
Nadja Adolf - What Black people went through was horrendous. What Civil War soldiers of all races went through was brutal beyond belief. The restitution was made.
Nadja Adolf - My husband's ancestor, Mr. Cutler, enlisted as he was very opposed to slavery. The reality is that slavery was not a threat to northern manufacturing. Slaves were rarely employed to any extent in manufacturing, and the Bell Ironworks was a rare exception. Slaves with skilled trades tended to work in areas in demand for local consumption - farrier, black smith, carpenter, etc.
Margot Wojciechowski - Maybe the blacks should apply to North African Muslims and and black tribes for reparations. They provided the victims
John Petty - America as an actual country had Slavery for around 80 yrs compared to the rest of the World that had it for around 6000 yrs that we know of. It was the Declaration of Independence, Bill of Rights, and Constitution that was the real beginning of the end of the at least 6000 yr old Mindset of one Human Being being able to call another Human Being private property. Yes I know it is very hard for the 20 min sitcom and now the if the video is more then 2 mins I am not watching it FB Generations to even imagine that real world 6000 yr old problems could take 80 yrs to fix. So the Media Brainwashing that America is the cause of ALL bad that has ever happen in all of Human history is just not reality at all. So one must look at ALL history from ALL sides not just cherry pick the small parts that they believe will make there opinions true. In fact that form of Slavery ended in America around 150 yrs ago wile it is still very alive and well in many parts of Africa and the Middle East.
Ronald Vossler - We need guys like you, John petty---great insight.
Muhammad Rasheed - American slavery is still alive and well, they just named it something else.
John Petty - As does every other country in one form or another. And the worst countries and Continent is the Middle East and Africa and the is mostly Blacks owning other Blacks.
Are you demanding any reparations from your Black African Kings that sold your ancestors into Chattel Slavery in the First place?
Muhammad Rasheed - No Old World slave system treated me like a subhuman, stripped me of my religion, culture, family creeds, and forced me to permanent subservience based on who I was, and then when his own guilt finally forced him to free me, actually turned around and stripped me of my rights again and doctored science to justify why its okay to exploit me. Plus you are the one STILL going around the world attacking people and destabilizing governments so you can rape them of their resources, remember? After all these centuries you haven't changed, you just got better at marketing.
Derrick Cox - @Ken Miles...good intentions aside...those are all bad ideas. The reason is they all set precedents. The injustices of the past are so far-ranging and wide-spread that when you open the pandora box, not only the few justified will complain, but thousands upon thousands more will want every type of valid or supposed injustice addressed. How do you define, determine and classify millions of injustices and then pay for them? It is absurd. Many whites were slaves, many blacks were slave owners, and many African blacks in Africa condoned and helped in the enslavement of other tribes. Just like Jews who help the Nazis. Where is the line drawn. How do you research millions who had roots in some manner or other on every side of the issue? Who is going to pay for it? People have to look at the past realistically, then while acknowledging injustice, we still have responsibility for ourselves and move on. Every race and ethnic group has had injustice done at some point in time. Maturity requires addressing current reality and moving on with the opportunities we have today. It is not an excuse to be liberal, lazy, feel victimized, and require someone take care of us...because of family history. It is nonsense. Move on.
Muhammad Rasheed - @Derrick... They should be done, and they SHOULD set precedents. If not, what's to keep the greedy from doing it again? If you do these horrible things to people, generate an obscene amount of wealth from it, and then walk off into the sunset with that money benefiting you and yours for generations in a monopoly of power with zero consequence, then what will keep you from doing it again?
Derrick Cox - @Muhammad Rasheed you want to play God? A single case of who did what is so complex it takes years to ascertain all the variables...and still comes up short. Don't waste your life on who did what to who. You may not like what you find.
Muhammad Rasheed - I'll keep my scope manageable, and confine it to 1658 to 2017.
Derrick Cox - @Muhammad Rasheed… way over your head...even a month's worth of world history would be. I don't consider your judgment skills to be up to task...and you are nowhere near being God...I will pass.
Muhammad Rasheed - There is no god but Allah. So you may safely let that straw man go. Come back when you have a real argument, please. Thanks.
Derrick Cox - @Muhammad Rasheed… so now we know where your thinking comes from.
Muhammad Rasheed - *rolls eyes*
Muhammad Rasheed - lol
Muhammad Rasheed - Please note that you won't find the "Reparations for Blacks because of race-based historic American wrongs" argument found in the body of Islamic texts. ;)
Derrick Cox - @Muhammad Rasheed… because they delete much of their own history that doesn't suit them? Are you going to provide reparations for all the Christians, Jews, Atheists, Neutral groups even moderate Muslims that ISIS, Taliban, Hamas and various other extremists are killing these days and in the past?
Muhammad Rasheed - uhhh... because the Atlantic Slave Trade was a thousand years younger than the Qur'an? lol Why would the Book even mention that argument?
And no. The actions of ISIS, Taliban, et al, are firmly the responsibility of their CIA/Mossad handlers that trained and unleashed them upon the world. Wake up, please.
Derrick Cox - @Muhammad Rasheed… Lol...and you are calling my arguments weak? the REAL culprits for Slavery…Arab Muslims…owe Africans “boku” bucks for not only enslaving them for centuries…but for CONTINUING to do so…
When Islam invaded and conquered Africa by the sword, the indigenous peoples that had previously prospered in Egypt, Nubia (southern Egypt and Sudan), Carthage (modern Libya, Tunisia and Algeria) and Mali were annihilated. Nothing escaped the rage of Islam…native populace and tribes were slaughtered by the millions, ousted and pushed to the south. Ibn Battuta, the Islamic historiographer, documents the extensive racism against Africans.
Adding insult to injury, Islamists have made an art out of lying to those of African descent, that their roots in Africa are Muslim. The reason for that is…their Christian ancestors were forced into Islam (or slaughtered if they refused). THAT’S how all became Islamic. Arab culture and the Arab race became “native” to North and West Africa. (The sword is a powerful persuader.)
Arabs ravaged Africa for almost a millennium, enslaving Africans on a massive scale long before the Europeans began exporting black slaves. They owe Africa BIG time. As a matter of fact, to those who are interested in facts: They are STILL to this day, enslaving Africans as work/sex slaves. But who really cares about facts, these days…especially if Muslims are the perps…
OPEC now makes over $1 trillion a year on Oil. I think it only equitable for these Arab nations…who have enslaved, profited-from, and murdered millions of Africans…to now GIVE the descendants of those victims a cut of the profits
It’s Africa’s fair share. It’s OPEC’s duty to give to those they’ve pillaged for centuries. It’s time to focus on the Mothers of all slavers.
I favor reparations for Africa: OPEC…cough it up from your coffers…and be glad I’m not suggesting this be done retroactively!
That is just one of many many examples.
American victims of Iranian terrorism will still hold some $53 billion in outstanding federal court judgments against Iranian government entities and officials. So long as Iran refuses to settle these little-known but massive judgments, they will continue to cast a shadow over Iranian relations with the United States and over expanding Iranian trade with European and other countries that could seize Iranian assets in implementation of the U.S. court judgments.
DO BLACKS OWE REPARATIONS TO THE JEWS?
Well now let me get this straight. Blacks in America (presumably even those who have immigrated here long after slavery was abolished) want reparations from the American government. Who shall pay for this? Will it be only white Americans, hence a “White Man Tax”, or will all Americans be required to shoulder the burden? Now you take me for example; I am a white man whose parents came to the USA in the 1950s. Am I too required to pay a “White Man Tax”?
On second thought, my ancient ancestors, the Hebrews, were in fact held as slaves of the Egyptians; a group of people often said by blacks to have been black Africans. Hmm…I guess in that case, all Jews should also be entitled to reparations from blacks. And since this event happened some three thousand years ago, well the interest on the money owed is going to be murder.
We might add that not only were the Hebrews held in slavery by those black Egyptians, but, while the blacks in America served only “two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil,” to quote Lincoln’s Second Inaugural, the Hebrew slaves in black Egypt served 400 years! And they had to work a lot harder, building them pyramids. And then there was the little matter of the slaying of the male children of the Hebrews.
Derrick Cox - @Muhammad Rasheed… Citation: Author Andrew G. Bostom expands upon his two previous groundbreaking compendia, The Legacy of Jihad and The Legacy of Islamic Antisemitism, with this collection of his own recent essays on Sharia - Islamic law. The book elucidates, unapologetically, Sharia's defining Islamic religious principles and the consequences of its application across space and time, focusing upon contemporary illustrations.
A wealth of unambiguous evidence is marshaled, distilled, and analyzed, including: objective, erudite studies of Sharia by leading scholars of Islam; the acknowledgment of Sharia's global "resurgence," even by contemporary academic apologists for Islam; an abundance of recent polling data from Muslim nations and Muslim immigrant communities in the West confirming the ongoing, widespread adherence to Sharia's tenets; the plaintive warnings and admonitions of contemporary Muslim intellectuals - freethinkers and believers, alike - about the incompatibility of Sharia with modern, Western-derived conceptions of universal human rights; and the overt promulgation by authoritative, mainstream international and North American Islamic religious and political organizations of traditional, Sharia-based Muslim legal systems as an integrated whole (i.e., extending well beyond mere "family-law aspects" of Sharia).
Johannes J. G. Jansen, Professor for Contemporary Islamic Thought Emeritus at Utrecht University, says this book "will prove sobering to even staunch optimists."
Muhammad Rasheed - @ Derrick...
1.) Your arguments ARE weak, and appear to be composed of a whole lotta copy/paste. Have you no original analysis of your own? The Arab slave trade, although horrible in its own right, has nothing to do with America's "peculiar institution." The latter encompassed numerous exploitative systems all the way up into the modern day, including the "Slavery 2.0" of the Prison Industrial Complex. Under the Arabs I was never permanently delegated a slave just because I was Black (there are Black Arabs; the Semite is an ethnic group, not a race). As an African-American, my issue is with the European ethnic types who owned, exploited and abused my own family for generations. The Arabs had nothing to do with that, but their crimes should be addressed in a separate suit for their specific atrocities. Right now we're talking about you. Focus.
2.) Why is Iran relevant to anything? Are you talking to yourself here?
3.) Since you mentioned it, it was the Jews that settled in Newport, RI (by way of Portugal/Spain) that started the Atlantic Slave Trade machine in the first place. They owned some 300 dedicated-to-Middle-Passage ships, owned the rum distilleries, and owned the Caribbean sugar cane plantations. They generated an unGodly FORTUNE, and were probably the most economically successful spot on the New World map at the time. And then the Red Coats seized Newport and all of their stuff during the Revolutionary War, forcing them to flee to their southern holdings. After the Americans won the war, they confiscated the slave trade apparatus for themselves and then business continued. This time the Jews retreated to the less risky trading/Wall Street side of the slave institution, where they were FAR more successful than before. And of course they continued to hold the sugar cane lands, which continued to generate MASSIVE profits well after both Britain and the USA stopped the importation of new Africans. The great wealth generated by all parties from this era still exists today in interest-bearing endowments around the country worth over a $trillion combined.
4.) Both Semite nations are ethnic groups, not "races." The European Jews that fled from Hitler are the promoted "face" of the group, but that's not what the genetically 'pure' children of Israel look like, despite the Euro-Jew's claims. The Jews are still Black, just not in political favor or power.
5.) The true Jews certainly have a real case for Reparations from Egypt. Currently the Arabs are pretending Egypt and all its ancient glory was originated by them (*snort*), so I say they should foot that Hebrew Reparations bill to definitively prove it. lol
Vance Kelley - What about reparations from the africans that captured the slaves, and the muzlims that transported them?
Edwin Sierra - Now you want to go after the African muslims? Shit man, you make too much sense. That will not fly. ;-)
Brent D Amundson - YeH, the Saudis. They profited
Zagros Madjd-Sadjadi - In reality, the Muslims didn't sell all that many to the Atlantic slave trade. They generally sold their slaves to the Middle East and other Islamic countries due to prohibitions (sometimes ignored if the price was right) on selling to non-Muslims. Most of the people sold to the Atlantic slave trade were by Christians or pagans (often of Muslims who they captured and decided to ship off to the Americas in retaliation for the Arab slave trade that was shipping so many to the Middle East). In general, the Arabs were "equal opportunity slavers" and basically were willing to enslave everyone and anyone.
Brent D Amundson - Japan banned all Muslim immigration . "Let the Religion of Peace live in the Middle East - a perpetual War Zone"
Edwin Sierra - If we had any sense we would follow their lead, for awhile at least.
Zagros Madjd-Sadjadi - @Brent D Amundson... Lies. Japan does not ban Muslim immigration.
Zagros Madjd-Sadjadi - We cannot ban Muslim immigration nor should we. We SHOULD ban immigration from certain countries with large Muslim populations that cannot be adequately vetted but it should be of ALL people from those countries, not just Muslims.
Stephanie Apodaca - I reject anything that has to do with reparations. It would be never ending and everyone and anyone will find reason they deserve it.
Edwin Sierra - What about all the social welfare programs we have for poor blacks and others? We probably have given away more money than reparations would get them.
Muhammad Rasheed - It wouldn't have to be never ending. I'm in favor of it lasting until the Black race is on equal social-political-economic footing as their rival White race. Instead of taking from the Whites to even things out, just build up the Blacks. And then "merit" and "boot strap hard work" can take over at that point, and we'll see who is right between the White Supremacists and the Afrocentrics. First let's even the playing field.
Brent D Amundson - I want Reparations for being subjected to RAP music
Joel Harvey - Thats not fair, rap music hasnt always been bad, its just modern day mainstream rap that happens to be terrible.
Brent D Amundson - Too late, damage is done. I BE OWED Big Time.
Joel Harvey - haha. Rap music can be such a force for good with the right direction though. Just look at how influential it is, its a cultural weapon.
Krista Boston - Makin me lol. Oh now some of it is very good. Linkin park. Eminem. Run dmc.
John Lamberson - What if I can find a link in my chain where one of my ancestors fought and died to end slavery? What I got coming for that?
Zagros Madjd-Sadjadi - That and $2.75 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.
Alan L. Falk - Sue the BLM for Reparations?
Conrad Gabbard - @Alan L. Falk… how about them giving some of that welfare back?
Alan L. Falk - @Conrad Gabbard… Interesting idea... :D Yeah, right...
Muhammad Rasheed - @John... Why would I assume that the immediate descendants of such an ancestor weren’t already compensated in the usual method?
Muhammad Rasheed - How much did the New Deal program cost? It enabled the poor Whites to get a boost into the new middle class, and deliberately excluded Blacks. The significantly weaker Greater Society programs from the post-Civil Rights era were sabotaged, and crafted to make sure that the socio-political gap between the two races remained.
The whole point to Reparations is to finally make things right. That's all. What is the best way to do that? Bearing in mind we aren't on the gold standard anymore, so it doesn't matter what the ticket price is. The Federal Reserve literally pulls money out of thin air in this fiat credit system. You certainly didn't care about the $billions-per-month the so-called War of Terror cost.
Jeremy Poncy - Just because were not on the gold standard doesn't mean printing money doesn't have negative consequences. In fact it's precisely because printing money has negative consequences that the gold standard should have been expanded or replaced with an equally effective standard.
Jeremy Poncy - The government doesn't literally pull money from thin air it figuratively pulls money from thin air. already compensated in the usual method? Under what reasoning would additional compensation be due under a Black Reparations program? Why would those items be linked realistically?
Joel Harvey - And just how much are you owed Muhammad ? And who is it that owes? Anybody alive?
Muhammad Rasheed - Who paid to enable poor Whites to have the New Deal easy street? Who paid for that?
Stephen Randall Sullivan - Who paid to free the black slaves? Was it a slave uprising or was it other white people who went to war with their own people to free the slaves? Are you going to pay back the hundreds of thousands of white people who NEVER owned any slaves but died freeing them? What about Irish slaves? Should they get reparations? I see your name is Mohammed. That means you came from a slave owning culture. Islam still has blacks and whites enslaved to this very day. So I think it might just be you who owes reparations. American slaves were sold primarily by Muslim slave owners.
Tim Key - Easy street? What are you talking about? And if it was "easy street" and if someone actually paid for it, it wasn't blacks.
Jeremy Poncy - The new deal was a failure. It was the deregulation of industry that was required to fight the war and that remained after the war that fixed the economy. Remember the New Deal was in effect for a decade and the country remained entrenched in poverty for that entire decade. The Great Society is perfect example what New Deal policies actually accomplish. Nothing but debt and inflation.
Jeremy Poncy - @Stephen Randall Sullivan... I strongly agree with the first half of your argument. The second half of your argument is more than a little hypocritical. Here you are arguing against holding people accountable for other people's actions while holding Mohammad accountable other people's actions. One group of Muslims holding slaves has nothing to do with Muhammad who may not even be Muslim. Stick to the first half of your argument. It's a much stronger argument.
Alex Paigo - @Jeremy Poncy… I believe the second half of his argument is merely sarcastic and meant to further prove the first half. You wouldn't expect a Muslim to pay reparations to peoples their religion has enslaved, just as you shouldn't expect a white person to pay reparations to blacks who's ancestors may or not may not (statistically speaking most likely not) have been enslaved by the white person's ancestors.
Thaddeus Vannice - New Deal Easy Street? All socio-economic groups showed steady improvement until the mid 60s when LBJ bought the niggers, his usage not mine. Blacks got sold down the river under the"Great Society". Look at Crispus Article High School in Indianapolis. Its decline is like a chronology of the failings of the Great Society. Now about 80% of Blacks live on the Democrat Plantation. Pastors like Jerimiah Wright teaching Black Liberation Theology perpetuate the Black racism. Reparations? My Great Great-grandfather was killed at the battle of Shiloh. His son managed to attend college and ultimately practice law.
I saw a statistic this week that I have not verified, only 1% of Blacks in America are descended from Slaves. I think about that farm boondoggle that handed out $billions to Black farmers, there was less ethics than a Chicago election. 🇺🇸
Joel Harvey - What about years and years of affirmative action? What about subprime mortgages? What about god knows how much welfare payments? As for the New deal, i honestly dont know anything about it, im not an american and im not informed on the issue.
Muhammad Rasheed - The "years and years" of affirmative action went to White people. That's the nature of the wealth gap between the races. More gov paid opportunities for Whites, less for Blacks (and the Whites bitched about how 'unfair' that was, too).
Joel Harvey - Stop blaming white people for your problems, live your life.
Muhammad Rasheed - That would only make sense if this society wasn't tipped in their favor at my expense. They bitched about the gap between poor Whites and rich Whites and were given a helping hand. When I complain about the poor treatments I've historically received for centuries, you tell me to "get over it." Why should I take that comment seriously?
Joel Harvey - mate, have you even familiarised yourself with the work of thomas sowell?
Joel Harvey - start here
Muhammad Rasheed - I'm in this group because I'm a long-time fan of Dr. Sowell.
You're the one that admitted you had no idea what the New Deal was, remember?
Muhammad Rasheed - This isn't the argument of 'solving the mystery of poverty.' This Reparations argument is based on centuries of the deliberate oppression of a people, the building of wealth at their expense, and the deliberate exploitation of their labor and communities. There is no mystery here, only the question of how this centuries long wrong will finally be made right.
Joel Harvey - So youre a fan of sowell, but you still believe in social justice? and reparations? ill research the new deal, but i fail to see how its put u out in any way. you talk about poor treatments that youve historically recieved for centuries but youre no older than 45 at a push by the looks of it.
Joel Harvey - you were never enslaved, and nobody alive ever enslaved anyone else in the US. case closed.
Muhammad Rasheed - Being a fan of his work doesn't mean I agree with him on everything, or don't otherwise have my own mind.
Naturally different generations of my people experienced various aspects of racial discrimination along the way. It certainly didn't stop after The Civil Rights Act was passed. In fact, that event came with its own special issues that also deliberately hurt me by the oppressor class.
Muhammad Rasheed - I do not deny my own personal responsibility to work hard and learn what I need to learn to achieve a quality of life I want, but I am also owed the debt of justice from this society's treatment of me and mine.
Muhammad Rasheed - And the more this lot makes fun of me about it, the more that is owed.
Joel Harvey - who owes you? and how much are you owed? and for what?
Joel Harvey - So making fun of you is something you can charge for now?
Joel Harvey - this is how your game works:
- Identify an area of human activity
- Note a distribution of success
- Identify winners and losers
- Claim that the losers are losing only because they are oppressed by the winners.
- Claim allegiance with the losers
- Feel secure in your comprehensive explanation of the world
- Revel in your moral superiority
- Target your resentment towards your newly discovered enemies
- Repeat. Forever. Everywhere.
Muhammad Rasheed - 1.) Who owes me: The United States of America
2.) How much am I owed: As much that is needed to close the wealth gap between the White & Black races.
3.) For what am i owed: For centuries of racial discrimination and economic exclusion, from slavery to the War on Drugs-Mass Incarceration Era.
4.) Yes, I'm charging for making fun of the ill effects of the above. Keep it up. The tab is still running.
Muhammad Rasheed - Your 'game works' bullets lack interest since they are uninformed and clearly biased against me.
Joel Harvey - 1) you wish to infringe on the rights of the innocent in the present day in order to amend the wrongs of the past (or in other words, take innocent hardworking white peoples money to fill your own pockets) Thats not justice mate. You cant charge innocent people for the wrongs of others that lived hundreds of years ago.
2) you speak as if the wealth gap is SOLELY due to historical events and not cultural differences and personal choices. Thats bollocks.
3) you can only claim what is owed to you as an individual, not as a group. Groups cant have rights simply because no group can ever fairly be held responsible.
4) making fun of someone is not a chargeable offence you nutcase.
5) stop being a victim, stop making excuses and live your life.
Joel Harvey - Debunking White Privilege: The Economic Reality
John Petty - The New Deal was and is Communism / Collectivism invented by the 'Real Rulers' to protect their Fortunes and Power from the Free-Market.
If you somehow think your collectivist idea of Reparations we somehow free you what to take a look at some real history because you will find that thinking will only make you more of a slave then you already believe you are and will most definitely make future Generations Slaves.
Muhammad Rasheed - NONSENSE. The only benefit to being under the Federal Reserve Act's debt culture is so that we can pay for big ticket items -- like $trillion dollar wars -- without bankrupting the nation. No one is EVER going to get that debt down because it's designed to be a perpetual debt machine.
Muhammad Rasheed - The currency is continuously eroding anyway, and no one is EVER going to fix that, so just toss my Reparations on top of that pile.
Glen Barnes - @Muhammad Rasheed… No one owes you a dime. Your argument for getting paid for something that happened many years ago in a different time and started way before Christ is ludicrous. LBJ started reparations basically in 1964 and that my friend has kept young minds out of the picture. You are a grown man, act like one.
Joel Harvey - Whites NOT most racist people on earth
Muhammad Rasheed - @ Glen... YOU owe me $billions (plus interest because of your dismissive attitude about it). And this is something that started at the beginning of the Atlantic Slave trade and has continued up to now.
Pay up, and stop being a selfish pig.
Btw, LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act, but only after agreeing with Hoover to kill the Civil Rights leaders, so that they could undermine the 'greater society' deal, and exchange economic inclusion for the impotent "integration." Your selfish, hoarding opinions mean nothing, only your cheque book.
Muhammad Rasheed - *holds out hand*
Muhammad Rasheed - *wiggles fingers*
Muhammad Rasheed - Come on.
Joel Harvey - Youre a racist piece of shit mate. Fuck off.
Muhammad Rasheed - You're a racist piece of shit, mate. Pay me and you can go.
Muhammad Rasheed - *holds out hand*
Muhammad Rasheed - *wiggles fingers*
Muhammad Rasheed - Let's go. I don't have all day.
Joel Harvey - sounds about right, asking for a hand out. how dignified
Glen Barnes - @Muhammad Rasheed… really good....enjoy yo daddy Al!
Joel Harvey - what a complete retard
Ted Koehl - @Muhammad Rasheed… Interesting albeit a limited focus of reparations as I scan your posts. Please explain how you are due reparations from society when ALL peoples that lived had ancestors who were at some point enslaved? What makes the slavery in the United States more egregious than say other countries? Slavery was imposed on America by several European powers that had colonies here; Why shouldn't the reparations-if any-not come from those original powers? What VALUE do you place upon the sacrifice of 750,000 American lives, mostly white, to end slavery in the United States? Slavery was a product of the Democrat Party as was Separate but Equal, Jim Crow Laws, Poll Taxes, the Ku Klux Klan, and the Anit-Civil Rights Movement; Shouldn't your attempt to seek reparations be made against the Democrat Party? If not, why not? Slavery today exists almost solely in lands under the control of Islam. The great majority of slaves brought to the America's were enslaved and sold by Muslim Nations. Why shouldn't your quest for reparations not be made against very wealthy Muslim Nations today for their direct involvement in the African Slave Trade for hundreds of years? I await your reasoned responses.
John Petty -
Jeff McDaniel - @Muhammad Rasheed… You would get welfare HUD foodstamps or any other aid before a white person will. Whites will have a much harder time getting it. You can get into college with a lower GPA than me. What else would you like because of the color of your skin in the land of the free??? You are a joke! Stop being such a pussy!
Muhammad Rasheed – Why the Left Isn’t Talking About Rural American Poverty
Muhammad Rasheed – The Bad Faith of the White Working Class
Muhammad Rasheed - It's weird how thoroughly uninformed y'all are, while at the same time being so passionately opinionated. Curious.
Joel Harvey - ny times lol
Muhammad Rasheed - Careful. You are about to utter a logical fallacy.
Jeff McDaniel - It's Orwellian that the herd still thinks the NYTimes is a reliable news source. What's it going to take???
Muhammad Rasheed - I feel the same about your hive mind GOP sources, but I'm not so silly as to proclaim it as a logical fallacy in the middle of the debate.
Jeff McDaniel - If a source lies to me time and time again I no longer believe them or use them as a source unlike you and the zOmbies that you follow around.
Joel Harvey - Great, lets get back to logic then shall we? Explain why its logical that a person should pay for the sins of another?
Jeff McDaniel - What horrible sources are you speaking of and what lies have they told you?
Joel Harvey - I suppose Thomas Sowell was lying too huh?
Jeff McDaniel - Instead of being angry because you aren't white you could not worry about it and just go kick ass in life. That opportunity is here for you in America. I promise you nobody gives a shit about the color of your skin accept you.
Muhammad Rasheed - Ted Koehl wrote: “Interesting albeit a limited focus of reparations as I scan your posts.”
You think so? The root cause of the issue is the demand to right the wrongs of centuries of socio-economic oppression by providing serious programs and/or funds that enable the Black American to achieve equal footing with the White race. What scope does it need beyond that? At that point the two groups would compete on equal footing, and we would sink or swim on our own merits. Today I have to work twice as hard to get half of what you have because of the socio-economic disparities inflicted on a fundamentally unfair society. This cannot stay as it is; all talk telling me to get over is not acceptable.
Ted Koehl wrote: “Please explain how you are due reparations from society when ALL peoples that lived had ancestors who were at some point enslaved?”
When I was freed in 1865, I was promised certain items that were reneged upon. Worst, all Reconstruction laws were repealed, and my new-found freedoms were replaced with jim crow laws, second class citizenship, and a relentless marketing campaign of the Black man as inherent criminal (before that it was the happy-to-be-a-slave Uncle Remus archetype that was promoted about me). This latter reached its apex during Reagan’s so-called ‘War on Drugs’ in the mass incarceration era. This is my life in America. Continuously exploited to keep me down to artificially raise up another. All of America is based on this.
Ted Koehl wrote: “What makes the slavery in the United States more egregious than say other countries?”
America is the only nation to delegate slavery permanently on a specific ethnic group, stripping him of his humanity to justify it. No other slavery was like this.
Ted Koehl wrote: “Slavery was imposed on America by several European powers that had colonies here; Why shouldn't the reparations-if any-not come from those original powers?”
Because the wealth coffers were not so easily compartmentalized. The entire system benefited from the extremely lucrative slave trade, at all levels. An entire race used the wealth, power and privilege to enhance their own communities at my expense, no true effort was ever taken to right these wrongs, and even today, the society is unfairly imbalanced directly because of this history.
Ted Koehl wrote: “What VALUE do you place upon the sacrifice of 750,000 American lives, mostly white, to end slavery in the United States?”
Who told you they were mostly White? lol I was very well represented on those battle fields. I don’t place more than they were due, considering I do appreciate the sacrifice, but I’m also well aware of the terror of the klan afterwards, the stripping of all the gains from the war, and the effective returning me to psychological shackles as a legal subhuman. Do you wish me to thank you for that?
Ted Koehl wrote: “Slavery was a product of the Democrat Party as was Separate but Equal, Jim Crow Laws, Poll Taxes, the Ku Klux Klan, and the Anit-Civil Rights Movement; Shouldn't your attempt to seek reparations be made against the Democrat Party? If not, why not?”
This isn’t about the political parties. Like government and religion, the party is worthless without actual people running it. Today, the mindset of the people who back then proudly called themselves Democrats is entrenched firmly into that of the GOP. And they act exactly the same as their Democrat ancestors.
Ted Koehl wrote: “Slavery today exists almost solely in lands under the control of Islam.”
The Arabs are an ethnic group, not a “race.” None of them delegate slavery to just one racial group; slavery doesn’t function like that in the Old World. Yours was ‘peculiar’ for a reason. A reason so heinous that –after tens of thousands of years of practicing it on earth – it wasn’t until YOU did it that the world demanded the practice stop. Why is that?
Ted Koehl wrote: “The great majority of slaves brought to the America's were enslaved and sold by Muslim Nations.”
Negative. The all of them were stolen from the coasts of Africa, after an initial trading period with the Africans themselves. But after the obscene monopoly profits started rolling in that practice quickly stopped. Your greed tempted you into enslaving the African traders, you see, and when word got out, no one approached your great stinking ships. So you had to try different means. That’s when you started leaving rum near the villages, and attacking the drunken tribes in the night. This became the regular policy & procedures for slave taking by the European powers. You may safely discard that “enslaved and sold by Muslim Nations” claptrap, as it had nothing to do with you.
Ted Koehl wrote: “Why shouldn't your quest for reparations not be made against very wealthy Muslim Nations today for their direct involvement in the African Slave Trade for hundreds of years?”
Because as the Black American, they weren’t my slave takers. YOU were.
Jeff McDaniel - @Muhammad Rasheed… I want money from the descedents of the Romans. They killed Christ and fed my brothers to the lions!!!. And I will never get over the trauma!!!
Muhammad Rasheed - I'm definitely NOT angry because I'm not White. I am angry currently at your pretending to have done no wrong while continuing to exploit me. That's pretty shitty behavior.
Jeff McDaniel - How in the hell am I exploiting you bro??? You are screwing yourself
Joel Harvey - so just because we're white - we've done wrong? by default?
Muhammad Rasheed - @Jeff... That's not going to work since the Christian Empire quickly grew more powerful than the Romans, and command 10 times the wealth they ever had. By what basis would your complaints be founded?
Jeff McDaniel - Poor victim....what a crock of poo poo
Muhammad Rasheed - Y'all are not even trying.
Muhammad Rasheed - I'm going to consider this a psychological block of some kind...
I won't quit until you are finally enlightened out of your craziness.
Jeff McDaniel - That they killed the Son of God and fed my brothers to the lions and enslaved them. I want money for that
Muhammad Rasheed - Look at this, for example:
The ‘smoking gun’ proving North Carolina Republicans tried to disenfranchise black voters
Joel Harvey - you still havent explained why its fair to punish an innocent man for the sins of another.
Muhammad Rasheed - And this: Trace of the Trade cuban segment.
Jeff McDaniel - Actually Black Panthers stopped whites from voting through intimidation and the racist POS Eric Holder wouldn't charge them.
Muhammad Rasheed - The new Black Panthers are 100% impotent and did absolutely nothing at all. Shut up.
Jeff McDaniel - I won't watch a left wing hit piece lie by the Washington Compost. You are listening to liars and letting them ruin your life!
Joel Harvey - @Muhammad Rasheed… explain why you feel its moral and just to punish an innocent man for the sins of another
Jeff McDaniel - BLACK PANTHERS ATTACK VOTERS IN PHILLY VOTING PLACE
Jeff McDaniel - Here's the truth and you will NEVER shut me up!!! You are right about one thing....the Panthers are impotent!! Thank God for that....angry racist assholes!!!
Edwin Sierra - You are informed enough. Many Americans who advocate for this are not as informed.
Jeff McDaniel - Joel Harvey It's not about that. What he wants is for Blacks to be the dominant culture over whites and he wants government to make it that way for him. He would rather wallow in racism rather than just shed the bondages of racism that he puts on himself. That would mean having to take responsiblity for himself rather than blaming everything on the color of his skin. It's really sad actually!
John Petty - The whites are this.
The blacks are that.
And the Central Banker gets richer.
The whites are this.
The blacks are that.
And the Central Bankers get richer.
The whites are this. The blacks are that.
And the Central Banker gets richer.
Jeremy Poncy - @Muhammad… where's your evidence? You have an entire list of claims with no evidence. Support your claims.
Jeremy Poncy - @Muhammad Rasheed… let's take your argument one at a time.
1) If were going to right wrong, shouldn't we right all wrongs? Africans benefited from slavery of Europeans particularly in Spain, Italy, Egypt, and parts of the Middle East.
2) You weren't freed in 1865 because you were never a slave. There are no such things as group rights. Rights by definition either belong to everybody or nobody, otherwise they are privileges not rights.
3) American, as far as this designates the people of the United States, is not an ethnic group it is a nationality. Europeans is an ethnic group and Europeans have enslaved people other than Africans including other Europeans. Only one particular group of Europeans enslaved only black people and that was Americans. Likewise certain groups of Africans particularly on the Mediterranean coast only enslaved Europeans. Your comparison is a false one.
4) See argument 1.
5) Nearly all Union fighters were white. The fact that you even dispute this is ridiculous. Even the black people that entered into the military and were trained for battle were mostly never used.
6) If you think the views of Republicans and particularly conservatives has changed from the 1860s to now I suggest you read the writings of Abraham Lincoln, Fredrick Douglas, and Booker T. Washington.
7) Muslims is an ethnic group. So. Does this justify slavery? Are there victims any less worthy of reparations? Justifying one groups acts of slavery because it was based on ethnicity rather than race is beneath you and everybody here. Also see argument 3.
8) Negative. The exact opposite is true. Only in the very beginning of the European slave trade were slaves stolen. It began after the conquest by Muslims of Constantinople. This cut off land routes for trade between the West and the East which greatly expanded the demand for exploration and sea trade. The Portuguese and Spanish began exploration around Africa's Cape of Good Hope and led to landings along Africa's western coast and subsequent theft of free men for slaves. This didn't last very long as The African people began arming themselves against the Europeans. The African people did however have a habit like most people of those days of instituting indentured servitude for certain crimes and excessive debts. The Africans began selling these indentured servants to the Europeans as slaves. The demand for slaves increased particularly in the population scarce colonies of America where there was a great demand for cheap labor which also led to indentured servitude of Europeans in exchange for paid passage to America by impoverished Europeans looking for better opportunities, particularly land owning opportunities. As the demand for servants rose this had a corrupting effect on African leaders who saw an opportunity for easy profits. They began establishing stricter and stricter sentences of indentured servitude for smaller and smaller crimes.
Conrad Gabbard - @John Petty… The word LBJ used was "Nigras," the Southern accent. The first slave-holder in the American colonies was Anthony Johnson, owned a black slave for life after going to court and demanding it, making him the first slave-owner in the New World. Yes, he was black, not white. Only in America could two black homosexuals become America's first family with their entire documented history, from birth to "marriage" sealed from public view - including the birth notices of "their" daughters.
Jeff McDaniel - @Conrad Gabbard… Damn brother I thought I was hardcore because I'm a "birther". Lol!
Jeff McDaniel - @John Petty… Is that a CRASS song you are singing?
Conrad Gabbard - @Jeff McDaniel… I've no doubt that Obama was born in the US, but at the time, Hawaii took call-ins on new births - which didn't always happen. His daddy, however, is far more likely to have been Frank Marshall Davis than Obama Sr., who demanded a pre-nup disavowing all responsibility for the support of the child (BHO). Davis had photo albums with nude and semi-nude pictures of Obama's self-hating momma. Her turning him over to Muslim teachers in Indonesia indoctrinated him in homosexuality, where he was used as a female (typical throughout Islam).
Jeff McDaniel - @Conrad Gabbard… I don't think he was born here. Fake Birth Certificate with nine points of Fraud as proven by Sheriff Joe. An Alias and 3 SS#s none of which match up with him. If he was born in Hawaii then why all the bullshit?
Conrad Gabbard - @Jeff McDaniel… His mother, pregnant by someone other than her husband, is going to flee to another country (where his daddy of record has another wife) to have him? Sorry, can't get my logical mind around that.
Jeff McDaniel - @Conrad Gabbard… So why do you think he has the phony BC and everything else? She might flee the country to have him if he is a bastard.
John Petty - @Conrad Gabbard… His Southern accent in no way changes what he said and meant.
And I can go into any predominantly black public housing areas and look around and see very clearly what the Democrats that run the place think of the black man.
Conrad Gabbard - @John Petty… I grew up among black folks, but all of them weren't ready to buy into government dependence, which punishes success and discourages efforts to break free.
John Petty - Conrad Gabbard… Did I say 'ALL' Blacks? I am talking about what the progressives are doing especially to the Blacks but want to do to everybody. It is in Governments own self best interest to have as many poor dependent people as possible because only poor dependent people really need massive Government. It is not even in the individual welfare workers own self best interest to fix the problem because to fix the problem they lose their job, if it gets worse they get a promotion and a raise. It is in the Free-Markets own self best interest to have as many rich independent people as possible that want to buy stuff.
Muhammad Rasheed - @Jeremy...
1.) I'm offended at the idea that you believe the Black American has no right to fight for group-empowerment, and the righting of historic wrongs, because there are other groups that should have the same. The offense comes from... not that I believe you really think this, because I don't... but because this sounds like the official argument for putting up artificial road blocks to prevent me from achieving economic inclusion. The Black American is the only former slave that was deliberately blocked from doing so. These others you've named have thoroughly recovered from a significantly less harsh slave system.
2.) My people were slaves, and today their descendants continue to suffer the effects of a system built upon that fundamental unfairness. I am denied the same rights as the former slave owner. I am treated as an 'inherent criminal' to exploit me for industry, little different than the slave system of olde.
3.) Your biased opinion of the topic gives you a narrow focus and blaring holes n your knowledge base. My comparison was 100% accurate.
5.) This is an example of the shitty American education system at work, and why "Black History Month" was necessary in the first place. Of course you demonstrate here that the effort is wasted when you folk deliberately ignore the facts of history in favor of your scrubbed Eurocentric version of it. Basically you are proving your own stereotypes, and let me assure you it is not flattering.
6.) I'm not interested in the shallow ideological talking points you SAY. This means nothing. What matters are the facts. Every White Supremacist has signed aboard the White Identity Politics represented by the GOP. Do you understand what that means? It means you are no different than your Democrat ancestors. Period.
7.) Al-Islam doesn't condone slavery. In fact, because of what the Qur'an says about it, and the example set by the prophet and the first four Rashidun Caliphs of his inner circle companions, slavery was almost completely wiped out in the Muslim World pretty early on. It was only later did greedy Arab rulers bring it BACK... for reasons little different than why the European started the Atlantic Slave Trade.
8.) You may stop talking about that. It is as I've said it was. I'm not interested in yet another flimsy explanation from one of you lot as to how you justify your people's great evil in your own mind. Stop.
Muhammad Rasheed - Joel Harvey wrote: "explain why you feel its moral and just to punish an innocent man for the sins of another"
Do you believe the 21st century White American is innocent of the brutality and long-term, generational effects of slavery, jim crow, White supremacist lynching terrorism, voter fraud/suppression, 'War on Drugs' criminalization, and varying other forms of disenfranchisement and economic exclusion of the Black American that have never stopped? Because I do not believe you are innocent at all, considering the same system that has invented new & exciting ways to hold me back from achieving equal footing with you, made sure to give you a free handout with artificial elevation at my expense. All of your talk about "'welfare queens' & government dependence" are 100% hypocritical and -- actually evil -- since no one has benefited more from such items as yourself, while you've actively blocked me from achieving an equal elevation from the same means at least since you resentfully stripped away all of the Reconstruction gains out of pure hate and envy.
So perhaps you should rephrase your question?
John Petty - @Muhammad Rasheed… Here is the reality on how the Subconscious Mind works.
Every time you affirm that you and your people were slaves you are telling yourself to act like a slave and telling the Universe to treat you like a slave. And the Universe does not care. If you go out looking for racism you will not be disappointed you will find it behind every tree and around every corner whether it is really there or not. A bunch or Individuals running around creating their own reality is the thing that scares to real rulers the most, your "group empowerment" is what they want, because the group is the easiest thing in the world to control and manipulate.
John Petty - @Muhammad Rasheed… No one but you and your echo chamber group thinks you are innocent either.
Muhammad Rasheed - @John, please keep your opinions of psychology to yourself, or share them with like minds, as I am not interested in what you think about such topics. Stick to the argument at hand. Thank you.
Muhammad Rasheed - I'm aware that your entire argument is designed to keep the Black American from achieving equal footing with the White race. I am under zero illusions in this regard. Argue your real point as I have no interest in your arm chair social philosophy delusions.
John Petty - @Muhammad Rasheed… If you don't think there was not a lot of psychology that went into the propaganda that got you to create your opinion then you truly are a slave.
Joel Harvey - @Muhammad Rasheed… groups cannot have rights because no group can fairly be held responsible. The rights of the individual trump the rights of a group. A man can only be held accountable for what he is personably responsible for, otherwise i could hold you personably responsible for more than 700 murders in chicago last year based on ur skin colour alone. You are full of bitterness and resent and the only person you harm is yourself. You are doomed to a life of disappointment and anger. I pity you and ur brainwashed mind.
Muhammad Rasheed - Considering it was your own people's treatment of my people in the last 50 years that led directly to the gang situation in Chicago, you have to pay up Reparations for that, and for your uninformed racist comment about it.
Muhammad Rasheed - ;)
Muhammad Rasheed - Keep it coming; the meter is still running.
Muhammad Rasheed - @John... Between the two of us, it's your opinion that holds the anti-Black propaganda, while mine is based on biblical fairness. Don't bother to respond since I fully expect your cognitive dissonance to repel my message in a desperate attempt to protect your White supremacist indoctrination.
Glen Barnes - @Muhammad Rasheed… Let's do away with ALL Government Entitlements and let's see how the chips fall and progress......Admit it, the majority of your culture and a huge part of the white culture would be drastically affected. Blacks and whites that were impoverished in the 60's have now become government serfs (1964LBJ). A check for a vote. That is still slavery in its most cruel form. Biblical fairness is certainly not in the democrat portfolio nor is it in the majority of Black culture. Free is defined by looting, government bones, riots etc.....The reparation thing is total Bull Shit and you know it. My check is in the mail.
Jeremy Poncy - @Muhammad Rasheed… I'm impressed by your tenacity but by little else regarding your arguments. You simply deny claims, shout racism and supplant most of my views with no alternative. I would, however, like to make you an offer. For every book you would be willing to read of my choosing I will read any book of your choosing. I'm willing to be as open to your worldview as you are willing to be open to mine. Are you interested?
Joel Harvey - If u had a biblical viewpoint you would understand the importance of the divine individual
Joel Harvey - nigerian americans make more average net income then french white americans - why? caribbean americans make more than native black americans - why? taiwanese, japanese and indian americans make more than white, black and hispanic americans - why? because personal choices and cultural differences determine outcome. even if whites were as racist - they couldnt force blacks to father kids and abandon 75% of them.
John Petty - @Muhammad Rasheed… You keep telling me you are a Slave and then you get upset when I agree. The answer to why nothing makes you happy is in you, not the white man.
You are addicted to your own hate and no amount of reparations will ever cure that addiction. Even if all whites somehow disappeared tomorrow you would just make up something else to hate. You do not think the same ones putting out the anti-black propaganda are also putting our the anti-white propaganda??? It is called Divide and Conquer. Taking 100% responsibility for one's own individual self is very hard the ego hates that, that is why it is so easy for the propagandist to get us to blame someone else, some other race, anything but ourselves. We are the only ones that can change our own thoughts. If your thoughts are hate they will always be of hate regardless.
Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing themselves.
Muhammad Rasheed - John Petty wrote: "You keep telling me you are a Slave and then you get upset when I agree."
Considering I've ignored you every time you said it, it seems you enjoy playing with straw man effigies more than debating the actual topic.
Muhammad Rasheed - I'm a fan of Dr. Sowell as it is his work that added to my ideas of working hard to learn new skills and improve the quality of life. My family and I live by these principles. This has zero to do with the Reparations argument, and is brought up by Whites only because they are addicted to their own hate, refuse to take responsibility for their wrongs, and the system tilted in their favor because of those wrongs. The only reason they are like this is because everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing themselves.
John Petty - @Muhammad Rasheed… Your Ego will not let you see that the actual topic is you and your individual thoughts. Every comment you have made is just some excuse for you not to take personal responsibility for your own individual life. The answers to your problems are in you, just as the answers to my problems are in me.
Muhammad Rasheed - Glen Barnes wrote: "Let's do away with ALL Government Entitlements and let's see how the chips fall and progress..."
I like the concept, but I would prefer to build my people up to your political-economic level, rather than take from you. Reparations are to even the playing field by build up.
Muhammad Rasheed - @John... I noticed that your Ego enjoys listening to you arm chair philosophy out of your butt. Let me assure you i do not share in your Ego's enjoyment. Please stop pseudo-philosophizing at me because you sound ridiculous.
Joel Harvey - Youre a racist ideologue. Its pointless trying to rationalise with someone like you. You literally think our skin colour automatically makes us complicit in your so called oppression. Im a 29 year old man from england. Even if i believed in your twisted bullshit collectivist guilt - My ancestors were poor scandanavian farm workers. I owe you nothing. I pity your children because youre raising them as victims and giving them the same excuse not to acheive. That makes u a shit parent.
Muhammad Rasheed - lol The fact that you spend so much time trying to distance yourself from "White Westerner" and yet still get so upset at this particular topic, it makes you 100% full of crap, Joel.
Your attitude gives you away as a racist.
Muhammad Rasheed - @John... I noticed that your Ego enjoys listening to you arm chair philosophy out of your butt. Let me assure you I do not share in your Ego's enjoyment. Please stop pseudo-philosophizing at me because you sound ridiculous.
Joel Harvey - Last time i checked, english people were white westerners. No distancing at all. Im upset for u and ur kids mate. Youre a lost soul and u need guidance.
Joel Harvey - Ur free to leave america if you dont wanna live there. Im trying to find an american bird to marry so i can get what u have. I actually envy what you have, id love to have a wife and family in america. U not even aware of ur fortune.
Jeremy Poncy - @Muhammad Rasheed… I would like to make you an offer. For every book you would be willing to read of my choosing I will read any book of your choosing. I'm willing to be as open to your worldview as you are willing to be open to mine. Are you interested?
John Petty - @Muhammad Rasheed… So I guess you can add that pseudo-philosophizing to your list of things to hate. LOL
Muhammad Rasheed - Joel Harvey wrote: "Im upset for u and ur kids mate."
Feel free to stop and focus on something else since your feelings lack interest for me.
I'm aware of my fortunes while I work to empower my people. I am also aware of what i am free to do or not.
Jeff McDaniel - @Muhammad Rasheed… Handing people free money will help with the build up???? No it won't. We already have a welfare state in Americand it does just the opposite. YOU MUST BUILD UP YOURSELF....reperations will not build you up they will keep you down!
Joel Harvey - I dont take advice from racist scum
Muhammad Rasheed - Stop talking to yourself then, Joel. Good day.
Muhammad Rasheed - Jeff McDaniel wrote: "Handing people free money will help with the build up????"
Of COURSE it will. That's exactly what enabled Whites to achieve what they achieved, even the poor Whites that benefited from the New Deal programs. Free money built you up at all levels. For some reason you are resentful of the same being used to make me economically equal with you. Curious.
Jeff McDaniel - @Muhammad Rasheed… How will reperations build you up? I would argue many are already getting them!
Muhammad Rasheed - See above comment.
Muhammad Rasheed - It worked for you so why wouldn't it work for me? You only argue against it because you grow resentful when I close the wealth gap between us, just like you did during Reconstruction. You HATE it when Blacks are successful. Why?
Joel Harvey - This is a pointless debate guys. I mean what are we really thinking people? Even thomas sowell didnt convince this guy (although im pretty certain he hasnt read much of his work) the guys a lost cause. Fuck him.
Muhammad Rasheed - Dr. Sowell's argument against Reparations doesn't take in all factors involved, and it even stops at the end of slavery.
Joel Harvey - Go and waste your life protesting to no end then mate. Youll never get reparations. Youre a fork in a world full of soup.
Muhammad Rasheed - People like you said there would never be a Black President, too, Joel. ;)
John Petty wrote: "So I guess you can add that pseudo-philosophizing to your list of things to hate. LOL"
It's certainly irritating, but the only thing I really hate is White Supremacist Ideology and the folks that knowingly support it.
Muhammad Rasheed - Jeremy Poncy wrote: "I would like to make you an offer. [...] I'm willing to be as open to your worldview as..."
Hey, Jeremy, I've read enough of your posts in this thread alone never to trust a single thing you say. Your offer is hollow.
Joel Harvey - ^^^^^^^ racist cunt
Muhammad Rasheed - Are you gonna make a similar hollow offer, Joel?
Joel Harvey - i offer you a big bucket of shut the fuck up
Muhammad Rasheed - No thank yew. Please feel free to drink it down yourself. Obviously you're thirsty.
Joel Harvey - ur thirsty for reparations that ur never gonna get. fool.
Muhammad Rasheed - Oh, I'll get them. I'm thirsty for Justice, as should we all be.
Naturally one such as yourself would hate that concept, since you like to hoard wealth/power only for your own group, and will literally do ANYTHING to exclude others. That's the opposite of Just.
Edwin Sierra - Mo, you might get reparations, I am not one to predict the future. But do You, personally deserve anything ? Not a cent. Descendants of slaves have no standing in law. You are not the aggrieved party. If that case could be made then we are all descendants in one form or another of some abusive govt. Or system. So hell just open the treasury door and everyone help themselves.
Jeremy Poncy - @Muhammad Rasheed… then just give me a reading list of what you read and I'll read it.
Joel Harvey - @Muhammad Rasheed… i have $600 dollars in my bank account. At the end of the month i will be paid $2248. My dad helps the homeless for a living, my mum is a teacher, my older brother is a sound engineer, my younger brother is a forklift driver and my younger sister is a proof reader - how much wealth and power does it sound like we're hoarding?
Jeremy Poncy - @Muhammad Rasheed… are you afraid to read a book that disagrees with your view point?
Ted Koehl - @Muhammad Rasheed… FYI: There was no 'Christian Empire" ever and you have confused the growth of the religion of Christianity with the Roman Empire. While Christianity was well persecuted by the Roman State until acceptance and conversion by the Emperor Constantine, the empire itself was and did remain Roman Byzantium until the destruction of Constantinople by the Arab armies under Islam. Have there been corrupt figures-individuals-within religion? Of course since we as men are and have been fallible. Do some religious sects seem to profit more than others? Yes, again for the same reason. Christianity in and of itself has not been a 'world power' nor has it been a particular state with defined borders, language or culture. While the Catholic Pope's residence is semi-autonomous in the Vatican, it is not the same as the nation of Rome or that of Italy proper.
Jeff McDaniel - @Muhammad Rasheed… I have NEVER recieved free money in my life SO I BUILT MYSELF UP. I don't know what the hell you are rambling about. The new deal didn't have anything to do with making white people the dominant culture in this country. The fact that white people came here from Europe and started the country might have more to do with it. It's not 1850 it's not 1950 it's 2017 and you are full fo shit. You aren't picking my cotton you are working for your own payceck just like me. You vote just like me(well we vote for different people that's for sure) you can go anywhere I can go....do anything I can do. The only one holding you back IS YOU YOURSELF!!!
Muhammad Rasheed - Jeremy Poncy wrote: "then just give me a reading list of what you read and I'll read it."
How about stop trying to order me around? wtf, is this your White Privilege at work? Just go find a bunch of books you don't know and read them. Why do I give a sh*t about your reading lists?
Jeremy Poncy wrote: "Muhammad Rasheed are you afraid to read a book that disagrees with your view point?"
Just like I'm afraid to have Internet discussions with people I disagree with? lol I guess this answers my question as to whether y'all EVER try to make sense or not.
Muhammad Rasheed - @ Edwin Sierra... That's one of the points I disagree with Dr. Sowell on. He's under the impression that the Reparations argument should stop at the slave institution, and I think it should encompass every single race-based oppression event that happened from slavery to now.
Joel Harvey - "White Privilege" - japanese, taiwanese and indians all do better in american society than whites do - do they have asian privilege? excuse making, weak minded pussy. Scared of lifes challenges. You're not a man. youre a rat
Muhammad Rasheed - This is a straw man, Joel. Just because they work harder and bitch less than you do when they arrive, doesn't mean that society itself doesn't favor your racial group over them. Stop being silly.
Joel Harvey - i think that if we talk in the context of groups (as you keep forcing us to do) the evidence shows that they work harder and bitch less than both of our racial groups! Thats why they do better! Better work ethic, more respect for their opportunities, thats why they do better!
Muhammad Rasheed - Am I forcing you to do things against your will, Joel? But you called ME weak-minded, remember? Make up your mind, please.
Muhammad Rasheed - Ted Koehl wrote: "...until the destruction of Constantinople by the Arab armies under Islam..."
Muhammad Rasheed - Jeff McDaniel wrote: "The new deal didn't have anything to do with making white people the dominant culture in this country."
I didn't say it did. What it did do was give poor Whites free handouts and created the middle class, while purposely excluding Blacks from the programs. That's why every White person in this thread is a hypocrite talking out of the side of his/her neck. There is no truth in you and you hate integrity.
I suggest you embrace Justice and get on the right side of history for once in your whining, entitled, privileged lives. Start now.
Joel Harvey - Whats the end game here mate? i mean clearly youre not convincing anybody here of your bullshit, we're all tom sowell fans for fuck sake! We try to do the altruistic thing and shed some light on the facts but you point blank refuse to acknowledge them. You're only intention here is to spew racial hatred. im done trying to convince u man, im glad youre unhappy, you dont deserve to be happy. i hope you feel bitter and downtrodden your whole life. I hope you spend the rest of your life cussin in conservative forums and being laughed at. This is clearly your destiny you pathetic fool.
Muhammad Rasheed - Joel Harvey wrote: "Whats the end game here mate?"
Reparations. Try to keep up.
Muhammad Rasheed - lol My "intention here" is to have rational discussion about Reparations, while you have a hissy-fit tantrum about just the thought of it.
Joel Harvey - and rambling bullshit in a tom sowell forum is how your gonna achieve that? Great strategy
Joel Harvey - congrats - youve convinced nobody of your warped ideas
Muhammad Rasheed - I'm pretty sure thinking that me talking about it in a FB group is my "strategy" for achieving it has to be another fallacy. You seem to collect them like bottle caps.
Muhammad Rasheed - I 100% didn't expect a racist crowd to be convinced of Reparations, I just wanted to have the discussion just like you did. I didn't make the thread, remember? I'm just a participant. You should use less red-faced emotion and more facts. Or ANY facts rather...
Joel Harvey - youve got no interest in rationale mate. if you were rational - you would know that i cant blame your great great grandads faults on you, and you cant blame my great great grandads faults on me.
Muhammad Rasheed - Your grandpaw handed you all the money/power/privilege he rang from my grandpaw's hide, and while you hold it up, claim that I can't blame you for it. lol
Muhammad Rasheed - What I want is to implement policies and programs that tilt the balance. Make us all even economically and politically.
THEN you can talk your "boot straps" fluff.
Joel Harvey - my grandparents lived and died on council estates (or in american terms - projects) they left me nothing. to repeat what i said earlier (that you never responded to) - i have $600 dollars in my bank account. At the end of the month i will be paid $2248. My dad helps the homeless for a living, my mum is a teacher, my older brother is a sound engineer, my younger brother is a forklift driver and my younger sister is a proof reader - how much wealth and power does it sound like we're hoarding?
Joel Harvey - i dont even have a car. i rent a moped for fuck sake!
Joel Harvey - do you own a car? do you have a house? do you earn more than $2,248 a month? cus if you do - you have a lot more than i do!
Jeff McDaniel - @Muhammad Rasheed… T he real new deal was when the left bailed on the KKK and started the welfare state instead. Much more sneaky and effective form of slavery. I mean you even vote for your own enslavement. Hows that free money been working for the inner city blacks or even southern whites for that matter?
Ronald Vossler - My area of the world, often poor and marginal white Dakota German ethnics, totally rejected and repudiated Fdr's New Deal. Why? Because they knew if you help people too much you weaken and destroy them.
Ted Koehl - @Muhammad Rasheed… Your arrogance and self-righteousness has blinded you from common sense, the truth, and the respectful request from some people here for the books (your reading list) and materials that you have relied upon to formulate your reasoning. It is so other people can understand where you are coming from and perhaps better dialogue with you or others who might think as you do.
Ted Koehl - @Muhammad Rasheed… Your premise is flawed and illogical. No one today owes anyone anything for what happened beyond the lives of those immediately effected by it. You know or should know this and to demand otherwise is simply being contrarian.
Joel Harvey - Once again - These are the rules that Muhammad Rasheed plays by:
- Identify an area of human activity
- Note a distribution of success
- Identify winners and losers
- Claim that the losers are losing only because they are oppressed by the winners.
- Claim allegiance with the losers
- Feel secure in your comprehensive explanation of the world
- Revel in your moral superiority
- Target your resentment towards your newly discovered enemies
- Repeat. Forever. Everywhere.
Ted Koehl - @Muhammad Rasheed… Wouldn't you have a 'hissy-fit' if someone you did nothing to and do not know reached into your pocket and took your money? You appear to have built a business and I wish you great success, however, what would your thoughts be to someone laying claim to your business and livelihood on account of some idea of reparations claim where they say you and your ancestors stole labor, property, or other wealth hundreds of years ago?
Muhammad Rasheed - @ Ted Koehl... Your arrogance and self-righteousness has blinded you from the fact that you can understand where I'm are coming from from dialoguing with me in a regular discussion. A hostile and biased group asking me for my reading list serves no purpose outside of an attempt to commit the genetic fallacy. Consider my refusal to play your immature games saving you from your selves. You're welcome.
Ted Koehl - @Muhammad Rasheed… You know-the raping, burning and pillaging done by invading armies-that is called destruction.
Muhammad Rasheed - Ted Koehl wrote: "Your premise is flawed and illogical."
Your premise is narrow, short-sighted, and selfish. Oh, and it is fundamentally unjust.
Ted Koehl - @Muhammad Rasheed… Your reply is either ignorant or just plain stupid. You have a definite purpose and a position and you have made other people who disagree with you curious as to why you think the way you do. Unless you are afraid you might be convinced of another way and that your current positions are wrong, why would you be afraid of informing others so they can be as well informed as you espouse yourself to be. Or is it maybe you have been spouting off a bunch of indoctrination talking points based in Marxist Liberation Theology with dabs of Islamic superiority complex thrown in for good measure?
Ted Koehl - @Muhammad Rasheed… Unjust? Why because I simply disagree with your weak arguments? You seem bright and yet have much to learn about life.
Ted Koehl - @Muhammad Rasheed… You stated this seems to be a 'hostile and biased' group when in regards to requesting your reading list. I might point out to you that no one is twisting your arm to join in the discussion and there is no penalty for your posts except-possibly-you just might learn something that changes your mind.
Muhammad Rasheed - Unjust because you don't see beyond your biased and very, very partisan nose.
Ted Koehl - @Muhammad Rasheed… And somehow you can see past your own faults and bias and prejudices? I admit I have faults and strive to improve myself. How about you Rasheed?
Muhammad Rasheed - It's a hostile and biased group specifically because of all the name-calling, racist jokes and racial slurred backhands I've encountered.
Jeff McDaniel - @Muhammad Rasheed… Hostile and biased group??? This is the Sowell foundation. Us white racists are all here because we believe the words of Thomas Sowell. Obviously you do not. But you probably don't consider Sowell "black" because he doesn't align with your confusion. He's probably what you would call an Uncle Tom cracker because you aren't a racist and we are. If we were racists we wouldn't be here because Thomas Sowell is a black man. We would be on some Alt Right site that doesn't exist. Lol!
Muhammad Rasheed - As I said a million times thus far, I joined this group because I am a fan of Sowell's work. In many ways he changed my life.
I do not expect the reasons I was attracted to his work to necessarily correlate with yours though. To think it should would be yet another logical fallacy.
Jeff McDaniel - Well I would argue that he hasn't changed your life enough yet but you are here so that is better than nothing.
Muhammad Rasheed - Ted Koehl wrote: "I admit I have faults and strive to improve myself. How about you Rasheed?"
Of course! Am I not human? (i'll admit to risking hurt feelings by asking that question of THIS particular crowd)
Joel Harvey - @Muhammad Rasheed… you still havent answered - Do you have a car? do you have a house? do you earn more than $2,248 a month?
Jeff McDaniel - What does THIS particular crowd mean? I will tell you something about me and many like me. We fully appreciate a free thinking black man who has used the free market to break his shackles. Actually we love them because we know despite probably wading in racist bullshit their whole lives they manage to figure out that it is pure crap and doing nohing but holding them back in life. We do not care for the reperations crowd who want my hard eaned shit to pay for your left wing mind Fing.It's never going to fly here...it's bullshit!
Muhammad Rasheed - @Joel, did I somehow give the impression that I was hanging on your every word with baited breath, eager to answer all of your questions?
If so then I apologize.
Muhammad Rasheed - Jeff McDaniel wrote: "What does THIS particular crowd mean?"
Well, so far I've been called "pussy," "weak-minded," and "stupid" for merely sharing an alternate opinion from the collective hive-mind. This goes a long way from giving the impression that you lot are civilized and smart. Just the opposite in fact.
Muhammad Rasheed - Jeff McDaniel wrote: "I will tell you something about me and many like me."
Don't bother. Your actions reveal FAR more than your empty words.
Joel Harvey - i aint got a wife, or children. I never got an inherritance. i dont live in a country where people have a right to free speech. I aint got a graphix company, i aint got a car, i make enough to pay the bills. But i aint asking for a hand out, im figuring out my next move cus im a man for fuck sake. What the fuck are you muhammed?
Muhammad Rasheed - Jeff McDaniel wrote: "I will tell you something about me and many like me."
Don't bother. Your actions reveal FAR more than your empty words.
Joel Harvey - Im the one who called you a pussy, weak minded and stupid, dont blame these lot for being uncivilised! Im the one being uncivilised here. fucking racist cunt.
Muhammad Rasheed - Did you notice that no one attempted to check you for your savagery, but instead attempted to check me for expressing an alternate opinion? ;)
You ALL are savages. I expected no less though.
You owe me Reparations for your very consistent behavior over the centuries.
Jeff McDaniel - Lol!!! Savagery???
Muhammad Rasheed - *points* You’re doing it here. Calm down.
Jeff McDaniel - It's a difference of opinion. Stop mangling the language like a leftist would!
Jeff McDaniel - I don't owe you shit! Actually you should be paying me for my wisdom that I have shared with you the last few days!
Muhammad Rasheed - It's adorable that you would believe you are capable of wisdom while standing behind your racism fort. Life doesn't work that way, sport. Step out of yourself, then you may start to catch a glimpse of the wisdom that today is so far away from you.
Jeff McDaniel - @Muhammad Rasheed… You are the only racist here bro....break those shackles brother! I don't know who put them there but only you can break them.
Joel Harvey - And he still wont answer my question because it doesnt suit his narrative. Mate im poorer than you, i couldnt afford your reparations even if you were right about this. You still want me to pay you?
Ted Koehl - It seems that Muhammad Rasheed is claiming we are all Kafirs (Savages) on this site if we disagree with his ethnocentric arguments. As I pointed out in a prior post, Rasheed seems to argue from a combined Marxist Liberation Theology and Islamic supremacist point of view. This projection is simply un-American and tries to shut down the free exchange of ideas. Is this true Rasheed?
Muhammad Rasheed - @ Jeff... What makes me a racist exactly? Tell me.
Muhammad Rasheed - @ Joel... Your savagery bores me. You've proven that you lack an intelligent argument, and prefer uncouth name calling w/arm flapping. Should I answer your questions just to practice? Go away.
Muhammad Rasheed - Ted Koehl wrote: " It seems that Muhammad Rasheed is claiming we are all Kafirs (Savages) on this site if we disagree with his ethnocentric arguments."
Not so. You are savages for uncivilized behavior. Attempts to control my thoughts while allowing the uncouth among you to go unchecked. This is savage behavior from the lot of you.
Joel Harvey - intelligent argument is exactly what you have proven yourself to be unworthy of! all you deserve is insults! debating you as if you were a normal person is futile because youre an ideologue! i gave up rational debate ages ago you fucking traitor. Youre an ungrateful prick and you dont deserve to live in america.
Ted Koehl - @Muhammad Rasheed… That response sounds like a weak mind that has run out of reasoned and logical answers to questions posed to it Rasheed.
Joel Harvey - I cant believe how polite and rational everybody's being to be honest. You guys are far more gentlemanly than i am. This guys a complete melon, and doesnt deserve any respect.
Ted Koehl - @Muhammad Rasheed… Savage behavior is cutting someone's head off because they do not believe in the same god as you do or any number of atrocities witnessed daily by the religion of peace. Disagreement in a forum of ideas is not savagery. Think about it!
Muhammad Rasheed - "He thinks different from what I prefer a Black to think like, therefore he deserves no respect."
Yeah, I've seen that before. You're strengthening my Reparations argument, gents. lol
Jeff McDaniel - @Muhammad Rasheed… What makes you a racist? Your total obsession with ones skin color. You see everything according to skin color. Down to I should pay you because mine is white and yours is black. That is beyond obsessed that is insane. When you walk down the street and see a successful white man you think he's a dirty savage whereas I walk down the street and I don't see color and I don't give a crap. If I see a black man in a porsche I do not immediatley think he's a savage and he shouldn't have it. I live in Socal and I'm surrounded by people of all colors and religions. I do not go through life breaking down everyone based on something that doesn't even matter...the color of ones skin. You do and that is what makes you the racist
Joel Harvey - RACIST CUNT
Muhammad Rasheed - Jeff McDaniel wrote: "I think 'racist fort'='white skin'"
No, it means White Supremacist Ideology.
Jeff McDaniel - @Muhammad Rasheed… I do not follow white supremacist ideology and nothing I have said warrants that. Why would I be a fan of Sowell if I'm a white supremacist? I wouldn't. I would just go find some white economist.You are pulling that out of your racist magical hat. Again you are being the racist here.
Ted Koehl - @Muhammad Rasheed… When I hear a discussion about white supremacy or other racial supremacy I know you are speaking about a very small fringe of less than one tenth of one percent of Americans. Rasheed-you have espoused more racism during this conversation than almost any other post. You have called people you know nothing about, 'racists' simply because they are a different race than you or simply disagree with your point of view. You have accused people here of white supremacy, an insult to most Americans. You have demanded that only the white people should be required to pay you and those to whom you designate as worthy, money, wealth, and things you have neither earned nor deserve by your own merits at this point, and then you express audacity at the reasoned objections by those who disagree with your paradigm. You claim to be a student of the great Doctor Thomas Sowell, yet your deliberations evidenced thus far demonstrate a faulty knowledge or understanding of even the most basic of Dr. Sowell's lifetime of work. You have presented yourself as an enigma without grounding in logic or a basic understanding of the founding principle of the United States of America.
Joel Harvey - .... or in other words Muhammad - YOURE A COMPLETE CUNT.
Conrad Gabbard - @John Petty… A key to understanding the welfare state is the difference in income any welfare/unemployment recipient who actually gets a job faces: work 40 hours to - at best - double one's income and pay taxes on it all. Hardly pays to take that job.
Jeremy Poncy - @Muhammad Rasheed… don't you want people to better understand your view points. Don't you want to seek common ground? You have an opportunity to potentially teach me something here. I don't understand why it's such a big deal for you to inform me on how to better understand your view points. Also, why are you so offended at the idea of reading something outside of your comfort zone? Aren't you interested at all in understanding other people's view points better?
Muhammad Rasheed - Ted Koehl wrote: "...you are speaking about a very small fringe..."
No, I'm speaking of the signatory of the White Supremacist racial contract. That's the vast majority of you with few exceptions. Your world view is a Eurocentric one, and it colors the lens in which you see me, and how you choose to interpret my argument. You give it away with your behaviors and responses in this thread. I'm speaking about you.
I've labeled you "racist" not because you are a different race, but because of your behaviors in this thread. No more, no less. You get offended at me having a different viewpoint, attempt to check me to conform to your Eurocentric views, but you fail to check this foulmouthed buffoon in your midst. This speaks volumes.
The scope of the Reparations program is confined to the 1658-2017 time period of atrocities committed, with the White race of Westerners being those from whom the apology is required. Reparations due from any other relevant group would be part of a separate suit. There's no need to keep bringing up the sins/grievances of others since that's not the point of this particular argument.
As you may recall, Dr. Sowell pointed out that the uncouth and low behaviors associated with the lower income Blacks was actually taught to them by uncouth, low poor Whites during the slave era. They did not bring that behavior with them from Africa as you lot enjoy saying, including in this thread. Therefore, the anti-Black decisions you all have made over the last 150 years, perpetrated by your relentless "Blacks as inherent criminal" propaganda that has done my communities so much harm, shall ALSO be a part of the Reparations package. Thank you, Dr. Sowell.
Muhammad Rasheed - Ted Koehl wrote: "savage behavior is cutting someone's head off because they don't believe in the same god as you do..."
Agreed. Allah said there is no compulsion in religion, so killing someone because they refuse to believe is indeed savage, per the command of the One God of Abraham. Anyone doing this is wrong.
Savagery is also the absence of civilized behavior, such as red-faced insults when none were warranted. If you find it impossible to remain civil in a socio-political discussion then perhaps you should leave heavy conversation to the adults. This advice is intended for whosoever it applies to.
Jeff McDaniel - @Muhammad Rasheed… I actually private messaged the guy and asked him to take it easy. So I did try to intervene on that one. Look calling us racist white supremacists is a serious insult and accusation. I know you believe that but we know in our hearts it isn't true.. Blacks as inherent criminals isn't true you say but when 13% of the population is committing over half the murders in this country you can't just say it's propaganda....there is some truth to it. Once again you don't want to take responsibility for yourself.
Muhammad Rasheed - So you "know in your heart" you aren't a racist, but when Sowell's own research pointed out the first half of the truth, and the propaganda designed to reap Black bodies for the Prison Industrial Complex show the other half ("slavery is over except for the criminal" 13th amendment loophole), you just double down on the 'Blacks as inherent criminal' because you prefer to believe that narrative with no follow up questions asked, and you want me to believe you AREN'T a racist "in your heart."
Jeff McDaniel - I don't believe blacks are inherently criminal but you can't tell me that they aren't doing a lot of killing in this country. Can you???
Jeff McDaniel - Me thinking all blacks are criminals would be like thinking all whites were slave owners so we should all have to pay you. I wouldn't do that plus I know plenty of blacks who aren't crimnals.
Muhammad Rasheed - You start with a PC comment, but then reveal your non-critical thinking racist heart every time you say "but you can't tell me they aren't inherently criminal!"
Muhammad Rasheed - There's TONS of well-documented material that show my people were deliberately set up for the Prison Industrial Complex (some of it you lot actually quote all the time!), but you still keep your biased "Blacks as inherently criminal" belief system grasped firmly to your breast because you are thoroughly indoctrinated in uncritically believing the worst about me as you are indeed a proud signatory of the White Supremacist racial contract. You deny this?
Then why didn't you challenge my Sowell reference? Why did you ignore it in favor of your blind faith biased stance against my people?
Jeff McDaniel - I didn't say that
Muhammad Rasheed - You've said plenty, Jeff.
Jeff McDaniel - Actually you said that it's a myth and I said it's not all propagand if there is some truth to it. Black people are doing an absolutely INSANE amount of killing in this country but I'm sure you will deny that too. You are a sad sick and twisted person
Muhammad Rasheed - Tell me why do you believe "there is some truth to it." Why do you hold this? -- bearing in mind it is part of your fury as to why you dismiss the Reparations concept out of hand.
Jeff McDaniel - @Muhammad Rasheed… Because black peopkle are 135 of the population but hey do over half the murders. They run criminal drug and gang enterprises allover the country. Those involved in this culture will kll a friend over $20. That is why....because I'm not in denial like you are.
Muhammad Rasheed - Before slavery was abolished, the propaganda machine promoted that I was a happy-jolly fellow, 100% content with being a slave, like the "Uncle Remus" character. The very second the money-hungry former slave owner saw that "except for the criminal" loophole in the 13th amendment, the marketing campaign IMMEDIATELY insisted I was a criminal in my soul. And then folk from your demographic were hyped up to resentful fury, donned your hoods, and began terrorizing me and throwing me in jail.
Muhammad Rasheed - And as your posts above demonstrate, that indoctrination based on greed is still alive and well.
Ronald Vossler - It is probably a given that some, if not many, blacks are just spiritually damaged beyond all of our understanding or ken. We all have our own loads to carry. I am a poor ass white, ethnic German, nothing but drunks for male role models. No father. All I can say to Muhammad Rasheed is you won't get any peace or resolution of any of your problems from an I phone.
Jeff McDaniel - No today I"m drawing my conclusions on what happens today....you draw yours on what happened almost 250 years ago. Hahahaahahaha
Ted Koehl - @Muhammad Rasheed said- “No, I'm speaking of the signatory of the White Supremacist racial contract.” Exactly what is that? As you call it, a contract that means that two or more parties have willingly agreed to certain conditions of performance for a consideration. Where is any of that documented?
Rasheed said-That's the vast majority of you with few exceptions.
How did you arrive at this assertion? Where is the statistical data to support your claim?
Rasheed said-Your world view is a Eurocentric one, and it colors the lens in which you see me, and how you choose to interpret my argument. You give it away with your behaviors and responses in this thread. I'm speaking about you.
How so since you do not know anything about me or my background or my ancestry? If anything, my worldview is an America-centric one as your own should be since it appears you were born, raised, and currently live here in America.
Rasheed said-I've labeled you "racist" not because you are a different race, but because of your behaviors in this thread. No more, no less. You get offended at me having a different viewpoint, attempt to check me to conform to your Eurocentric views, but you fail to check this foulmouthed buffoon in your midst. This speaks volumes.
This seems to be some made up bullshit. Behavior is what people actually do, not a point of view in a conversation. It appears you wish to assign your own meanings to plain words that have another meaning in the dictionary. You assign blame against me for not insulting another post contributor simply because you took offense to what he said to you. The last time this type of argument was relevant was between second and third grade. Hopefully you have matured by now and can effectively deal with an adult conversation.
Rasheed said-The scope of the Reparations program is confined to the 1658-2017 time period of atrocities committed, with the White race of Westerners being those from whom the apology is required.
Who decides this, You? Why? What basis do you have for ignoring the sins of an entire world of slavery and barbaric acts and oppression by seeking to delineate and assign blame and responsibility to American’s of a different color skin then you purport to be?
Rasheed said-Reparations due from any other relevant group would be part of a separate suit. There's no need to keep bringing up the sins/grievances of others since that's not the point of this particular argument.
It appears you wish to punish a select group of people due to a conclusion of fairly twisted logic and a bastardization of actual history.
Rasheed said-As you may recall, Dr. Sowell pointed out that the uncouth and low behaviors associated with the lower income Blacks was actually taught to them by uncouth, low poor Whites during the slave era.
The slave era in America that you speak of happened 150+ years ago. The only one responsible for uncouth and low behaviors today is the people living today.
Rasheed said-They did not bring that behavior with them from Africa as you lot enjoy saying, including in this thread. Therefore, the anti-Black decisions you all have made over the last 150 years, perpetrated by your relentless "Blacks as inherent criminal" propaganda, that has done my communities so much harm, shall ALSO be a part of the reparations package. Thank you, Dr. Sowell.
Unless you or I have lived a very long time, the premise of your logic is fallacy. If you actually read Dr. Sowell’s works, among others, you would realize before the Johnson Great Society program that blacks in America were on track to become just as prosperous and cultured in every respect as any other American whose skin is of a different color. The Great Society program has in effect placed an entire group of people back on the plantation serving their racist Democrat masters and it appears you are too indoctrinated and committed to stupidity to realize it.
Muhammad Rasheed - @Jeff... 50 years ago, after the Civil Rights Act was passed, the effects of the "Integration era" caused the successful Blacks to flee to the suburbs, and left the lower income Blacks vulnerable and isolated for the first time since slavery. Drugs began being pumped into those communities, alcohol products were promoted everywhere in those neighborhoods, and crime started to rise. The "greater society" legislation was formed and passed -- despite dire warnings from Moynihan -- and final piece in the Mass Incarceration scheme was secured. This was by design, and showed BOTH parties working hand-in-hand to exploit me for same ole reasons.
Muhammad Rasheed - @ Ronald... I don't own an iPhone, and that comment will cost you an additional $25 to add to the Reparations pot. Keep 'em comin.'
Ted Koehl - @Muhammad Rasheed - More made up bullshit on your part Rasheed. Here are some facts in a short video you might understand: Are the Police Racist?
John Petty - @Muhammad Rasheed… Just because something is promoted does not mean you need to do it.
Jeff McDaniel - @Muhammad Rasheed… How exactly did the "integration era" force blacks out of the hood??? I think they left by choice because it was getting to be a shitty place to live buddy. More bullshit!!!
Muhammad Rasheed - ^^^Is this part of the "open mind" to understand my point of view? lol
I had zero illusions about you guys. "Let's see your reading list so we can understand you better!" No, it's so you can commit the genetic fallacy and distract from the topic. Do you think this is my first convo with White people? lol I'm saving you from your own foolishness & fuckery.
Jeff McDaniel - Liquer stores on every block where I live. Drugs everywhere....Hmmmmm????
John Petty - Black Man Issues EPIC Rant to 'My Black People' - Stop Blaming Racism, Take Responsibility
Ted Koehl - @Muhammad Rasheed… Then you realize the citation from the Koran is abrogated by later commands that say to kill all of the unbelievers and so forth? You also realize the Koran is but a small part of Islam and the other parts include the words of Muhammad and the life story of Muhammad as well. So when you try to explain something please be certain to include ALL of the information.
Ted Koehl - @Muhammad Rasheed… What the heck is a genetic fallacy?
Muhammad Rasheed - Ted, stop. I'm not interested in disbeliever interpretations of what the Qur'an says. You may throw it out, or save that opinion for less informed Muslims.
Muhammad Rasheed - How about Google "genetic fallacy" like you are actually on the Internet. hm?
Muhammad Rasheed - (no surprise that Joel would 'Like' Ted's genetic fallacy query; did you two forget how the Internet worked? hahahaha)
Muhammad Rasheed - smdh
Muhammad Rasheed - What good ARE y'all? lol Keep calling ME ‘stupid' though. No, really. It’s adorable.
Jeff McDaniel - @Muhammad Rasheed… What a hypocrite...you are soooooo open minded
Ted Koehl - @Muhammad Rasheed… You have inadvertently admitted to much.
Jeff McDaniel - hahahahahahahahaha
Muhammad Rasheed - I AM open-minded. But you don't have an argument for me to analyze. You prefer to spew your biased indoctrination. I've seen that before, wot. You’re just too low on the totem pole so to speak.
Muhammad Rasheed - @Ted... I've deliberately admitted to much. lol #ComeAtMeBro
Jeff McDaniel - Our indoctrination that all men are free and they must go out and do it on there own in a free market??? As opposed to your I'm a poor victim because I have lack skin and I need money from you to get ahead of you.You are an idiot!!!
Jeff McDaniel - HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
Muhammad Rasheed - You definitely don't believe all men are free, as you believe Blacks are inherently criminal and you support the Prison Industrial Complex. Save your nonsense, please, and at least attempt a modicum of integrity. sheesh...
Jeff McDaniel - I believe that all men that don't kill other people over a ten rock should be free....sorry
Jeff McDaniel - @Muhammad Rasheed… All men that don't kill other people should be free...sorry!
Muhammad Rasheed - Is your needle stuck...?
Muhammad Rasheed - @Jeff... You didn't go out and do anything "in the free market." You got free gov handouts at literally every step of the way that Blacks were excluded from, and you got resentful at the crumbs I received from the gov to shut me up about the unfairness of the discrepancy. And now you're too busy bitchin' about me to focus on your "boot straps" hypocrisies for yourself.
Jeff McDaniel - You think I'm a racist you don't even know what I think about your dirty backwards ass death cult of a religion LOSER!!!!
Muhammad Rasheed - lol I could've guessed. Accurately it turns out. hahaha
Jeff McDaniel - @Muhammad Rasheed… do you have sesx with kids....no you probably goats! Hahahahahahahaha
Muhammad Rasheed – You… like Ted, Conrad, Mike, et al… are uninformed about Al-Islam, actually have zero idea what it's about while pretending you do, but are savagely PASSIONATE about your hate for it.
Muhammad Rasheed - This is typical behavior of your demographic. Do I need to point this out? You are walled up in your bubble after-all.
Jeff McDaniel - The prophet you are named after was not a pedophile???Enlighten me???
Ted Koehl - @Muhammad Rasheed… Respectfully, I see your posts and they are not grounded in reality. It is like we are play-acts in one of your surreal cartoons-excuse me-graphic novels. You seem to have a skewed look at real history and reject it in favor of made up things to suit your worldview. It is too bad because you seem otherwise intelligent. Dr. Sowell would have trouble trying to digest the shit sandwich you have been making-with respect of course.
Muhammad Rasheed - @Jeff... Of course he wasn't. lol
Muhammad Rasheed - @Ted... My graphic novels use the cartoon narrative arts to tell the stories. Apologizing for saying "cartoons" reveals your ignorance. You may wish to clean that up.
You "respectfully" admit to my intelligence, yet casually dismiss my anti-Eurocentric point of view that you favor. hahaha Somewhere there is a discrepancy. ;)
Jeff McDaniel - @Joel Harvey… It's so true, It's angry little bitches like this that go blow peoples legs off when they get laid off or their goat dies. Danger is festering here
Muhammad Rasheed - BTW, Ted, my faith in Dr. Sowell's ability to listen to an alternate argument and remain civil while he discusses it is significantly higher than your own. The "Black Rednecks" essay alone demonstrates he isn't a puppet shill for you all's nonsense.
Joel Harvey - You are intelligent. Intelligence is not where u struggle. You struggle with morality. Intelligence has no bearing on your ability to be moral, in fact the more intelligent you are - the more capable of treachery you are when burdened with a corrupted spirit. Youre rotten inside and full of spite.
Jeff McDaniel - @Muhammad Rasheed… You wouldn't know civil if it knocked your head garb off
Muhammad Rasheed - @ Jeff... Interesting that you direct the "angry little bitches" charge at me, and not towards those of you with all the "angry little bitch" name-calling you are so committed to. Curious.
And between the two of us, your demographic is the most likely to shoot up a kindergarten, drown your kids and blame it on me, or hold a federal building hostage at gun point because you finally give in to your hissyfit whining. You may wish to cool it on that one before you embarrass yourself further. You're the real "inherent criminal" between us, don't forget. I just play one on FoxNews. lol
Ted Koehl - @Muhammad Rasheed… I said you appear to be intelligent, however your arguments border on stupidity because you reject simple truths and facts about history in favor of a skewed worldview where your paradigm is made up. American's do not have a Euro-centric view because first they are American and not European, second-America is made up of peoples from all continents and nations, therefore, the viewpoint is distinctly and uniquely American in nature.
Muhammad Rasheed - @Jeff... Stereotype much, racist? smh lol
Muhammad Rasheed - That will cost you $50 towards my Reparations pot.
Muhammad Rasheed - Keep it up.
Muhammad Rasheed - @ Joel... I argue pro-Justice; that's the very definition of morality. Your hatred of the concept reveals the true avatar of corruption between us. Eat up.
Ted Koehl - @Muhammad Rasheed… I have read and enjoyed the works of Dr. Sowell et al for a long time. You might wish to actually reacquaint yourself with them along with the works of Dr. Sowell's mentor, Dr. Milton Friedman. As always the works of Dr. Walter Williams, among others are beneficial to any reader as well.
Jeff McDaniel - @Muhammad Rasheed… You actually started the name calling...over and over you spewed lies and insults at me.. I remained civil for hours and then I got sick and tired of your sorry bullshit. You don't deserve my respect! More truth for you wallowing in darkness
Muhammad Rasheed - @Ted... My arguments "border on stupid" to you for no other reason than because you disagree with the concept from a kneejerk White identity-based reaction. Period.
Some Americans hold a Eurocentric worldview and others don't. You represent the former, while me, the latter. America is vast, and its peoples varied. Elementary.
Muhammad Rasheed - @ Jeff... You're aware that your posts are available for public record, yes? All we have to do is scroll up and see who started the name-calling, you understand the basic mechanics of this, right? smh
Muhammad Rasheed - Your demographic likes to retcon history and deny your own mess and blame it on others. You're very consistent.
Joel Harvey - Hes not stupid, thats the problem. Only an intellectual could be so wrong. His intellect only assists his corrupt proclivity.
Joel Harvey - This man is not an american. That label is entirely inappropriate. Im literally saddened by the fact that youre even a US citizen you treacherous traitor.
Jeff McDaniel - @Muhammad Rasheed… Did your prophet take a 9 year old bride or not???
John Petty -
John Petty - @Muhammad Rasheed… "Your demographic likes to retcon history and deny your own mess and blame it on others. You're very consistent."
Did ''''YOU'''' actually just accuse someone of blaming others for their own mess????
Muhammad Rasheed - @ Joel... Apparently I'm not an American citizen now because I argue for Justice, and fail to uncritically swallow the fraudulent and problematic Eurocentric world view. Interesting.
Are there any other special Black people rules for being an American citizen I should be aware of? #Uppity
Jeff McDaniel - @Muhammad Rasheed… Ummmm yes he did
Muhammad Rasheed - @ John... I've continuously listed that very evidence, and you all have been conspicuously dodging it like Neo ducking bullets. Don't worry about it, I didn't expect you to. #Consistency
Muhammad Rasheed - @Jeff... Okay, I'll bite. Based on what? :)
Muhammad Rasheed - Bearing in mind I'm not going to make this long since 1) I already discussed this in this group recently, and 2) I don't want to derail this excellent Reparations thread.
Jeff McDaniel - You said you argue for justice. I don't see it. You argue for what you think justice should be fr you personally but that is only justice for you. It doesn't include anyone else. You are selfish
Joel Harvey - Im outta here. This is completely pointless. Turning notifications off.
Muhammad Rasheed - OH NOOOOOOZ!!!!
Muhammad Rasheed - *cries @ losing Joel*
John Petty -
Muhammad Rasheed - @ Jeff... To be clear, Reparations is a group suit that benefits all my folk. I can't do it all by myself. lol
Oh, and you don't see quite a bit. You may wish to see a doctor.
Jeff McDaniel - @Muhammad Rasheed… I can see for miles and miles...you are blind
Jeff McDaniel - @Muhammad Rasheed… How are reparations just? I didn't hold any slaves? Let me ask you this...I'm a 14th cousin direct descedent of George Washington. Do I still get to live? Do I have to pay more? Lol! You already get welfare and affirmative action. That is your reparations.
Muhammad Rasheed - @ John... *fixed*
Muhammad Rasheed - Jeff McDaniel wrote: "How are reparations just?"
Because when one particular ethnic group is deliberately oppressed in various types of exploitive systems for centuries, in order to economically elevate another group that is unjust. Since the nature of that injustice is economic in nature, to right the wrong should necessarily be economic. Elementary.
Muhammad Rasheed - This SHOULD be obvious to you. It is not precisely because you can't see past the opacity of your White Supremacist Ideology, and are thus blind. Accept it and move on.
Muhammad Rasheed - Actually based on the nature of your bitchin', I'm willing to propose the following amendment to my Reparations suit:
"All Whites who own less than $XYZ.00 in total assets are eligible for a Reparations tax credit and are exempt from contributing to the fund." (some restrictions apply)
Hopefully that will be sufficient to keep you from reaching for your damned KKK hoods again once this whole thing is implemented.
Jeff McDaniel - @Muhammad Rasheed… You are a lunatic
Muhammad Rasheed - Is that the extent of your feedback then?
Conrad Gabbard - @Muhammad Rasheed… I've only known one white family, my most friendly neighbors in Taiwan. Yes, they're Chinese Albinos. Reparations are just another dream for more unearned welfare. Only one culture in the world practices and is proud of slavery today, defined in hadith Bukhari, vol. 2, book 24, no. 542 - (Mohammed) “Horses and slaves owned by a Muslim are tax exempt. It is forbidden to capture a Muslim and make him a slave. If a slave converts to Islam, then there is a benefit in freeing him. But there is no benefit in freeing a non-Muslim slave. Islamic slavery is a blessing because sooner or later the slave or the slave's descendants will convert to Islam in order to be free." - Why didn't you know that - or the fact that the Arabic word for Negro and slave is the same?
Muhammad Rasheed - @ Conrad...
1.) I fail to see the relevance of the Albino thing. It reminds me of running criminals in the movies, where they are depicted tossing random obstacles in the path of the pursuing cop to aid in the escape. It rarely works then either.
2.) The Reparations package is clearly earned. Generations of slavery, jim crow, White supremacist terrorism, fraudulent voter suppression, overrepresentation in for-profit prisons, and deliberate economic exclusion is the documented notice your bill is writ upon. If you can’t afford to pay then you shouldn't have played. #KarmaIsAHarshMistress
3.) The Qur'an doesn't condone slavery. All hadiths that do are fraudulent and you may safely discard them. Did you know that, based on what the Qur'an said about it combined with the examples of the prophet and the Rashidun Caliphs, slavery was almost completely wiped out in the Muslim World? It's true, and pretty early on in Islamic history. It was only the greedy empire building Arab rulers generations later that brought slavery BACK and made it big business. This tidbit of info proves that the slave institution is a secular economic item, and not of God. Since I am quit informed on these details, while you prefer to dance in La-La Land about it, you may stop bringing it up now. As a Muslim, slavery has nothing to do with me. Talk to the Arabs if you wish to score your 'zingers.'
Porky Todd Cardwell - First off I don't believe it's a stupid or even a dumb idea but it is one that's without logic or reasoning. We have to examine this from the standpoint of where and why does this seem to be an attractive idea to some and not to others and so we must look to the logic of the matter to see if it's consistent. Why should America pay reparations for slavery but all of the other slave driven societies throughout history be exempt? This is a pertinent question especially since slavery and even more specifically the Atlantic Slave Trade originated way in advance of even the discovery and eventual structuring of America. In fact slavery itself predates written history and every major civilization from ancient Sumer (Mesopotamia) the Egyptian, Greek, Roman and Ottoman empires were all participants in the economic system of chattel slavery. Why only the American form of slavery to be monetarily sanctioned? The raw numbers of people enslaved cannot justify such a penalty when other societies such as Brazil and the Ottoman Empire clearly enslaved exponentially more than those in the United States. Just with these few facts alone should cause one to question the logic and/or the motives of those seeking reparations in America. Why America only and based on the entirety of human history who exactly is entitled to the reparations and from whom should payment be demanded???
Jeff McDaniel - You have very sound reasoning for a guy named Porky. Lol!
Jerry Smith - Porky, where is your argument? What is your point and position. All I see is : yes we are guilty but he did it too and more??? Moral equivalence!
Porky Todd Cardwell - No not at all. My argument is in the question of the logic of the idea of reparations. In light of the world history why only America to pay reparations ? Nearly every existing human being on earth has ancestry that were victims of slavery which raises the question of who is more deserving of reparations and why?
Porky Todd Cardwell - The Reparations Fraud by Dr. Thomas Sowell
Jeff McDaniel - It was clear to me Porky
Ken Miles - Hey Muhammad Rasheed, thanks for injecting a little more spice in this thread. My question to you sir: Let's imagine everyone agrees on these principles of social justice, and the time comes to actually implement a solution. How do you go about doing it? What program would avoid the Cobra Effect scenarios of unintended consequences that Sowell warns so strongly against?
Muhammad Rasheed - I don't think it is possible to avoid the negative effects at all. That's not realistic. The best thing to do is design a risk response plan and try to direct that force into something useful. This will require a serious think tank brain storm to hammer out possible solutions.
Muhammad Rasheed – Reparations… the US Gov acknowledged righting of wrongs committed against the African-American, descendants of the former slave class. "Wrongs" include the chattel slavery economic institution and all connected indignities of the same, the White Supremacist group terrorism of the lynching era, the 2nd class citizenship of jim crow, the socio-political-economic exclusion from mainstream society, the continuous sabotage of Black businesses and communities (deliberately running freeway systems through Black business districts), the relentless marketing campaign that the Black male is an inherent criminal so to fuel the Prison Industrial Complex ('War on Drugs'), etc.
Muhammad Rasheed - I think Reparations should take at least two forms:
1.) A rock solid Black Economic Inclusion Plan designed to provide nigh-unlimited funds to enable Blacks and Black families to achieve home ownership, businesses, financial education, etc. that match equal-for-equal the economic status of the White Americans of middle class+.
2.) Active and permanent protection of the Black American communities from resentful Whites and their Supremacist terror groups. This to include vigilance over maintaining the hard won civil rights, voting rights, emancipation from the slave institution, etc.
Ronald Vossler - So you have no problems making straps out of somebody else's skin?
Muhammad Rasheed - Explain, please.
Brent D Amundson - I think an important part of Black Reparations is giving them the ability to choose. With advancements in modern science....pick a color - gringo, asian, mexican or gay....... :)
Marina Paris - :D
Tim Key - Reminded of a comment my inlaws made right after Katrina. They live in Corpus on north padre island. The government brought New Orleans residence to escape the flooding and housed them in Corpus. FEMA also gave them each a government credit card with a specific limit to spend. Something with which to take care of basic needs with. From what I was told, the jewelry stores did quite well with this.
Miles N. Fowler - It was an investment. How did Goldline do?
Muhammad Rasheed - Tim Key wrote: "From what I was told, the jewelry stores did quite well with this."
Who told you this? Your friends at the local bar as you shared ni99er and 'welfare queen' jokes?
Tim Key - typical Muhammad.
Muhammad Rasheed - It would be pretty typical. So is this you admitting that I guessed correctly? Yes or no?
Ted Koehl - @Muhammad Rasheed… Actually, the misspent monies were documented in both the national (mainstream) and alternative (non-traditional) news. I note above that although Tim Key stated this was due to Hurricane Katrina, he did not identify any race regarding the misused of the funds. It appears you have made that assumption on your own. For the record, it was ALL ethnicities and races involved in misspending taxpayer funds.
Tim Key - @Muhammad Rasheed… I don't drink, have not used the term "n....r since a young man, in my sixties nor would I, do not sit around in bars. Beneath me. But if it will make you feel better you can make up your stories about how he didn't deny it so it must be true. I don't care. Sit around with your , "bro's and talk about ignorant white trash honkys. I'll get over it.
Mark Pomerantz - @Ted Koehl… thanks for pointing out that the left has created and continually perpetuates all racial stereotypes for more than 150 years.
Michael Epperson - @Muhammad Rasheed… are you fully committed to racial stereotypes, or was this repugnant comment out of character for you?
Muhammad Rasheed - Why do you believe it was a racial stereotype? Are you saying you somehow DON’T share 'ni99er jokes, and guffaw about Reagan's "welfare queens," call my First Lady an 'ape,' etc., when you are just among yourselves? Really?
Brent D Amundson - i see another Democrat Ugly Trend coming.....1st its Black Slaves, then its House Slave, Worker Slave, Sex Slave.....its a Cruel World and everyone has to pay!...:)
Chad Jones - I propose a form of "white privilege" tax which I think both the alt-left and the alt-right would be able to get behind.
(1.) We eliminate welfare for those capable of working but (2.) then impose a $50 minimum wage to make work really pay. Then, (3.) as a penalty tax for "white privilege", we exempt white people from the benefit of minimum wage -- they only get whatever they can negotiate.
Reparations for everyone. ;)
Ronald Vossler - Sup. Mf rap don't be destroyin nut in. My byotchs be believin the same.
Henry Fu - I'm not sure what you are saying
Ronald Vossler - That is my point. Rap music has mangled syntax and meanings---and it divides us even further racially I think.
Catherine McGuinness - I think it is too late for reparations. It will just cause a wedge in race relations. Too much time has passed. I would like to see African Americans do well. This is my hope.
Becca Tatum - The DNA studies of the actual heritage of Americans is going to be a problem if we are going to all get in separate groups. We are all human. Let's be humans!
The Genetic Ancestry of African Americans, Latinos, and European Americans across the United States
Muhammad Rasheed - It won't be a problem since raping slaves to both breed new stock, as well as breaking the slaves' spirit to aid in 'seasoning' them for chattel, are all firmly within the documented described wrongs.
Torin Klunder - Obama Appointing More Inexperienced Diplomats as Political Favors
Becca Tatum - You should read the study.
Conrad Gabbard - @Muhammad Rasheed… Anthony Johnson, Owned a black slave for life after going to court and demanding it, making him the first slave-owner in the New World.
John Hope Franklin, historian: “28% of free Negroes in New Orleans owned slaves: a free black in New Orleans was five times more likely to own Black slaves as the average White Southerner.”
Kinda blows your lame argument, seeing that both named men were black.
Muhammad Rasheed - Free Blacks would routinely purchase relatives to keep them together and out of the reaches of cruel stranger owners if they legally weren't allowed to outright free them. That concept made up the bulk of Black slave ownership, and shouldn't be surprising. Outside of that, your finding an obscure individual Black businessman who had given in to his lust for wealth at the expense of others, is a poor deflection attempt from your own beloved White Supremacist Ideology anti-Black system. Try harder, please.
The Fundamental Sin of Racism
The Righteous Anger of the Wronged
Preparing for the Arrival of Black Reparations
Notes While Observing: The White Establishment's Plan for Profiting From Black Reparations
Dialogue with the White Conservative: "Justice is Coming!"