Muhammad Rasheed - They're not stupid, they just don't give a shit about you. They believe everything the tv said about black people, so they think you have no value. When you are killed they don't even blink; it literally means nothing. When the tension builds and erupts into local destruction then they shake their heads and coo about how this isn't helping anything, they feel bad for the things being destroyed, and in their mind it confirms that you were just a savage after all.
If only you were sweet and patiently long-suffering like that kid they celebrated as the Perfect Negro Archetype from The Blind Side film. But all of this complaining about ill treatment and getting angry and bringing up historic wrongs...?
"What are we going to DO with you? Please calm down. This isn't helping. Will your people EVER grow up? My my... look at you. Just like a bunch of monkeys. Life is not fair, okay? You're just going to have to get over it."
Honestly, it's like they want us to hate and resent them.
Clifton Hatchett - Brilliant.
Cavadias Bryant - Awesome!!!
Khalil MuMinun - I was talking to a co worker last night and came to the same conclusion about their perspectives. They don't care and wouldn't have it any other way no matter what you say
Chris Jones - " they" think it's horrible that it's got to come to this in order to say that enough is enough.
" they" also think it could be counter productive by giving the police a reason to militarize and jeopardize more black lives.
There has got to be a better way.
Peiple like to make it black vs. white but its black and white vs. Blue.
Muhammad Rasheed - Chris Jones wrote: “’they’ think it's horrible that it's got to come to this in order to say that enough is enough.”
That’s an odd thing to say considering so many of the European ethnic groups had to fight through revolutions and bloody battles of their own in order to achieve their societal rights. In fact, all of our riots have been pretty lightweight in comparison. I guess when black people do it though it magically becomes savage and jungle crazy, huh? Yeah, how horrible that it has to come to this when all we wanted was to be treated like humans in the first place. It sucks when centuries old wrongs still linger in an age in which people pretend that that mindset is primitive and no longer relevant.
Chris Jones wrote: “‘they’ also think it could be counter productive by giving the police a reason to militarize and jeopardize more black lives.”
I would consider that ironic considering when we aren’t rioting out of impotent frustration, the dominant mainstream’s leg breakers are shooting our babies dead because of society’s proven attitude that Black Lives just don’t Matter.
Chris Jones wrote: “There has got to be a better way.”
STEP ONE: Stop blaming the victims when they get mad.
STEP TWO: Black society really should come together across all socio-economic class lines, the way they had no choice but to do during the jim crow era, and continue to a time when they developed their own economic power bloc that contributed to the whole. Black empowerment is the best of all better ways.
STEP THREE: Black society should join the international Technological Elite, with the average Black doctorate degree in math, science, tech instead of education or philosophy or whatever. Join the powerful moneyed class.
Chris Jones wrote: “Peiple like to make it black vs. white…”
This is America, right? It will always be about racism until we actively work to eradicate it from our land. Until we do so, in preference to pretending it doesn’t exist and getting irritated when the traditional victims complain about it, expect to continue to hear it.
Chris Jones wrote: “…but its black and white vs. Blue.”
The cops are the enforcement arm for the dominant mainstream group.
Chris Jones - My bad. I forgot. I'm automatically the enemy because I'm white, I can't relate because I'm white, I'm mainstream cop loving, racist, gay hating, dumb hillbilly cracker. I don't get to have an opinion as an American? We are both Americans, correct? We ( whether you agree) are in this together,
we have to figure it out together. Its ironic that I care enough about Black lives to want Black folk to not gave to live in more fear from police or rioters. Its bad enough as it is, you want more police running around in tanks and swat gear? I don't! Its counterproductive!
Muhammad Rasheed - Chris Jones wrote: “My bad. I forgot. I'm automatically the enemy because I'm white…”
This is a strawman argument, and is the most common form of logical fallacy in a discussion. It is composed of the opponent creating a false argument that he pretends the other guy said, and arguing against it. At no time or place did I ever make the claim that all whites are my enemy. I don’t believe that. This isn’t an individual versus individual debate; this is a battle of ideologies. If the ideology that I’m arguing against happens not to belong to you, then what do you want?
Chris Jones wrote: “…I can't relate because I'm white, I'm mainstream cop loving, racist, gay hating, dumb hillbilly cracker. I don't get to have an opinion as an American?”
I believe in the Freedom of Speech, Chris. Be free to speak your mind; we do not believe in censoring people and deleting threads on this Timeline. We do believe in challenging peoples’ claims and walking an argument down to its logical conclusion. If you are game then bring it. Throw down your rod. I will also throw down my rod and perhaps we will work hard in the effort to understand one another.
Chris Jones wrote: “We are both Americans, correct?”
I’m an American.
Chris Jones wrote: “We ( whether you agree) are in this together, we have to figure it out together.”
I’ve heard that concept before recently. Then as now I find the sentiment wanting. During the times of my people’s greatest troubles in this country, the kind-hearted among you were nowhere to be found. In the end we are always alone in the fight.
Chris Jones wrote: “Its ironic that I care enough about Black lives to want Black folk to not gave to live in more fear from police or rioters.”
Do you?
Chris Jones wrote: “Its bad enough as it is, you want more police running around in tanks and seat gear? I don't.”
Did I say that I wanted that? What gave you the impression that I did? Should the same weird and insulting attitude that directed that comment towards me cause me to actually believe you don’t want that? Please explain.
Chris Jones - In addition Mr. Rasheed. I think I need to add that I'm a fairly uneducated man ( my sentence structure shows that) but you seem an intelligent guy. So let me ask you one question.
Did you ever think to yourself, that this is what " they" wanted?
Muhammad Rasheed - "This" being what exactly?
Chris Jones - Since we are strangers. I would ask a mutual acquaintance about my motives.
You insulted an entire race by assuming " they" all were against equality. I simply wanted to explain a possible motive for their thinking other than being racist or uncaring.
You are welcome to ask about me or my motives. I spend everyday trying to level the playing field and due to these riots, inner city Baltimore schools are shut down. How's that progress?
Chris Jones - Watch how much the police budget grows and the public school budget shrinks now.
You and the mutual friends we share hold sway among young men and I ask that you show them the right way. You all are intelligent, articulate, stand up men and young black men look to you all for guidance.
Muhammad Rasheed - Chris Jones wrote: “Since we are strangers. I would ask a mutual acquaintance about my motives.”
No thank you. I’m not hiring right now.
Chris Jones wrote: “You insulted an entire race by assuming " they" all were against equality.”
Tell me why you assumed that “they” referred to “the entire white race,” instead of just those members of that race (& friends) who subscribed to the ideology that I am arguing against, please.
Chris Jones wrote: “I simply wanted to explain a possible motive for their thinking other than being racist or uncaring.”
Go for it. I’m listening. Be prepared to defend the position should I disagree.
Chris Jones wrote: “You are welcome to ask about me or my motives.”
I am genuinely uninterested. Perhaps during our discussion it will actually become relevant to make a real point. Until then you may hold it in reserve.
Chris Jones wrote: “I spend everyday trying to level the playing field and due to these riots, inner city Baltimore schools are shut down. How's that progress?”
I agree that it is indeed a tragedy that any amount of progress needs to be set back because of the fundamental unfairness in society acting against the black people like a ticking time bomb. Naturally, I would consider working to find the root cause of the over-all issue, solving THAT problem, and them all the babystep band-aid progresses won’t be so easily swept aside. They will then become icing upon the cake of True Progress.
Muhammad Rasheed - Chris Jones wrote: “Watch how much the police budget grows and the public school budget shrinks now.”
I’m pretty sure it’s been doing that dance for a while now.
Chris Jones wrote: “You and the mutual friends we share hold sway among young men and I ask that you show them the right way. You all are intelligent, articulate, stand up men and young black men look to you all for guidance.”
I’m interested in zeroing in on programs that empower the youth economically to enable them to live great lives leaving poverty far behind. I would like to support those programs that have been proven to do so most efficiently.
Chris Jones - My friend has several groups in the works where I'm from.
Everything from a gentlemen's academy for disadvantaged young black men, to a " hoods to the woods" hiking/camping mentorship program.
Picking up a charge for vandalism or assault during a riot can't help the fight for equality.
Just my opinion though. I appreciate the dialogue and meant no disrespect. Just trying to gain a better understanding of how my neighbors think and feel.
Muhammad Rasheed - Chris Jones wrote: "Picking up a charge for vandalism or assault durig a riot can't help the fight for equality."
It turns out that getting shot because you wore a sweater with a hood on it to buy candy while black and consequently pissing off the community when the asshole that pulled the trigger walks isn't good for the fight for equality either.
Chris, putting the attention on the effects instead of the cause will never win my support ever. When Party A oppresses and attacks Party B until the latter finally snaps, whining as to how can we stop Party B from snapping when frustrated, instead of directing ALL attention towards the root cause, is what my ideological enemy sounds like.
Muhammad Rasheed - I'm surprised you didn't challenge my "always alone in the fight" comment with the abolitionists and similar folk.
Chris Jones - I've never attacked any party and the fact that you make it about party A and party B.
Is why the change has yet to come around.
Is every cop white? Is every cop a bad guy?
Do these aholes want black folk to riot in their own neighborhoods bringing more destruction and mayhem?
Do they want to show certain pictures and label an entire demographic as " bad" or I've even heard rioters being revered to as "animals". WTH is that? You win your cause through people that are compassionate to your plight nit through fear.
Look at those people in blue. That's their thing. Not ours( my bad, yours I guess).
By the way canbabis prohibition puts young black men in to the cycle of prisons more rapidly than most anything else and I fight everyday to change that. So how's my ideology that different, other than some misplaced hate?
Muhammad Rasheed - It would seem that your bottomline is that if only black people would act right whites would finally accept them and all of these bad times would be behind us. If this were true then we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
Chris Jones - Wrong assumption again.
I just wanted you to get another perspective I ain't trying to make an enemy ( I have plenty already) just giving you an unbiased opinion. Not need to sweat it, the white politicians and police I talk to about these things seem to get offended also.
Muhammad Rasheed - EVERYONE'S opinion is biased, Chris.
Muhammad Rasheed - Chris Jones wrote: "Wrong assumption again."
How was it wrong, and what was the other one that was wrong?
Muhammad Rasheed - Here's the things you said that actually offended me:
1.) When you suggested that I wanted the people to riot and get beat up by military-police forces.
2.) Your weird and nigh-continuous assumption that I mean EVERY white person and EVERY cop is my enemy. I noticed that you've failed to explain how you've come to this assumption. Are you chalking it up to your lack of a formal education?
Chris Jones - I love a good debate Mr. Rasheed but I don't think this is going anywhere. I also think I might be the wrong guy to take on this argument in order to make a point. If ok. I'm going to try and have someone else make this point from a different vantage point. I don't think mine holds enough weight unfortunately.
It was a good chat though. You kept me on defense and a good defense is the best offense.
Muhammad Rasheed - The actual quote is "A good offense is the best defense." It doesn't work the same way when it is flipped backwards, Chris.
Muhammad Rasheed - Chris Jones wrote: "I love a good debate Mr. Rasheed but I don't think this is going anywhere."
I'll assume you feel that way because you failed to sway me to your side? You're right, your point didn't hold any weight to me, and the less so when you made the claim that your opinion was unbiased. In fact, you may add that to the list of things you said that offended me.
Chris Jones - You condoned it and as a man. Black or White I think you should have spoke against it.
You said they as in white folk. And due to the fact I get called a racist for having a differing oponion and because of my skin pigment daily. I took offense and thought I may help since I might represent another demographic that doesn't wish ill will on another man. I just wanted to stress that there are better ways.
Sorry if my assumption offended you and I hope through all my weirdness we've gained more understanding.
Muhammad Rasheed - Chris Jones wrote: "You condoned it and as a man. Black or White I think you should have spoke against it."
I don't believe in speaking against the symptoms of a problem. That would be a complete waste of my time. I believe in addressing the root cause. The symptoms, you will find, will vanish away like magic.
Chris Jones wrote: "You said they as in white folk."
lol I said "they" as in the specific sub-group that believe in the ideology I'm arguing against. Tell me why that means that I'm automatically talking about all white people. I find it odd and suspicious that someone claiming not to be a racist would continuously INSIST that is what I mean. Curious.
Chris Jones wrote: "I just wanted to stress that there are better ways."
Better ways of releasing frustration than rioting? There's always a better way. If you somehow think that these frustrated people will listen to me and stop erupting in violence after dealing with their societal wrongs for so long because M. Rasheed told them to, you are very mistaken.
Chris Jones wrote: "Sorry if my assumption offended you and I hope through all my weirdness we've gained more understanding."
I've gained zero understanding from our dialog. You seemed to make it a point to deliberately avoid all of my questions formulated precisely so that I WOULD gain understanding. How am I to understand you if you don't answer my questions?
Chris Jones - Mr. Rasheed. No disrespect intended. If you could take just a minute to watch this video I just posted it may help clear up what point I couldn't make.
Muhammad Rasheed - I'm at work right now. What does it say?
Chris Jones - Sorry man. It was just a different perspective of a young man from Baltimore.
Just real talk. Talk is what brings about change.
Muhammad Rasheed - I have a fundamental issue with anyone making the claim that it is the blacks who must do all the changing in order for people to stop oppressing them. The people who think that are unaware of the history of the two groups in this country.
Again I'm not interested in the opinion that we need to tackle the symptoms of the problem in order for the problem to go away. That never works for any kind of illness. Ever. That certainly includes societal ills.
Sum up the kid's point for me, please. What is his message?
If his message is "We shouldn't be rioting, y'all. There has to be a better way." then tell me what that has to do with anything? How is watching that clip helping me in any possible way?
Chris Jones - Sorry to bother you and I appreciate your taking the time to chat with me.
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