Kamau Mkafele Mshale – [shared photo] This is the most insidious kind of racism
Alby Johnson - I'm not racist! PHOTO OP!!
Dave Fox - Yeah seriously what does she want a cookie for giving them a couple bucks after assuming they were criminals? The post still says it's normal and acceptable to assume that of black boys, just that it's good to "overcome" that
Muhammad Rasheed - Shit like this makes me feel hatred. Raw.
Maia Crown Williams - Alby n dave Ripped the nouns, verbs, and adjectives right out of me. This is comical as all hell. PHOTO OPP!!
Will Kindovabigdealwill Cross - Maaaaaan, SMFH!!!
Chris Flick - Wait... I need some explanation here because I'm reading this in a totally different way. I read this whole thing as this was her attempt to prove to her friend that these two guys WEREN'T up to no good - as her friend assumed.I would say she probably could have approached them a lot better than she described but other than that, I'm not seeing or getting what you guys are. help fill me in, okay?
Muhammad Rasheed - When I read it, it sounds like Tuohy AND her friend thought the kids were "suspicious," and because it was her store, she went over to bravely ("well you know me") find out what was going on. That if two white teens were "literally huddled over in a corner table nose to nose," no one would've 'noticed' anything.
Muhammad Rasheed - She gave them "money for popcorn and bus fare" because she felt bad from her and her friend's racist assumptions.
Sean Henry - Crazy story. Anyone else find it funny how the one kid has a nice chain, beats by Dre headphones but can't scrape up 3 bucks for a basketball game.
Muhammad Rasheed - No. There were times when I didn't have any cash on me as a teen, even though I had "stuff." And who said they 'can't' scrape it up? She said they were in the process of getting it, that's what the nose-to-nose meeting was about as they contacted their friends.
Chris Flick - @Muhammad Rasheed, Yeah, I can see you're interpretation as well. That's why I said I think she could have approached the two guys a little differently.
But I also subscribe that we (as a people) also put our own spin on things as well. I'm also looking at this as maybe the lady who wrote this wasn't as eloquent of a writer as she could have been. There seems to be a lot of short hand here as well. I don;t know her but through her post, I'm supposed to know what kind of an individual she is ("you know me").How many times have we said that to our friends? You know the type of person I am... well, that could be she does this with a lot of strangers in her store... sits right down beside them and starts talking to them with little or no introduction. I know people who do that. i also know people who are uncomfortable being approached that way or approaching other people that way so no, I don't actually "know her". I can only guess.If you're comfortable with other people approaching you like that, maybe this is innocent and she's simply curious. If you aren't, then maybe she IS like her friend and wants to see for herself. Again, I don't know her so it's all speculation and conjecture on my part.
All I can say is if this was my and I was that lady, my post would have been written a whole lot different. Specific details would have been added such as explaining to my friend I bet those two aren't up to anything and I'm going to go find out.I would have approached them differently by first introducing myself and telling them I was the owner and asking if I could sit with them.I would have said they looked like they were having some trouble.Once they told me what their troubles were, I would have offered to help them out.Once I did, I would have said I helped them get their basketball tickets so they didn't have to ask their friends and offered them a little help with bus fare as well.Sometimes, it's all in how you approach somebody or how you properly express yourself as well that makes all the difference. Would you agree with that?
Muhammad Rasheed - I think it's interesting that you are generously willing to give a white woman the benefit of the doubt that she meant no harm, while I am un-generously not willing to give her the benefit of the doubt based on normal behavior experienced from that demographic towards my own demographic. I wouldn't have thought the kids were automatically up to no good either.
Muhammad Rasheed - This is precisely the reason why I think cops should only patrol their own ethic group neighborhoods.
Muhammad Rasheed - People are FAR more generous and nice to their own, and FAR more willing to be understanding, as opposed to this horrifying "shoot first & let God sort it out" attitude the white cops have in my neighborhoods, compared to how they act in their own neighborhoods. GET OUT!!!!!!!!!!
Muhammad Rasheed - White Cops on Armed White Teens: "Awww..! Those Little Rascals!"
Kamau Mkafele Mshale - Like m.rasheed said. If they were white kids no one would cared. Also no prize for the photo op would have been cooler to just inform her friend of their racist attitude.
Chris Flick - Well, that's why I am asking these questions, Muhammad Rasheed. Only by asking them and seeing each others perspective can we learn how the other people see things.I don't think this is strictly a race-related thing though. I think this can also be a man/woman thing as well. We men do things that we think are completely innocent all the time that some women take great offense to and women can do similar things to men.It's hard to see at that precise moment why things are misinterpreted until we start talking to each other and seeing things from different points of view.That's really all I am saying.As far as all the terrible things that are currently going on with cops and racial tensions, I think Andrew Hawkins had an absolutely great response in his reaction to the Cleveland police union wanting an apology from him for wearing the shirt he wore on Sunday. If you - or anybody else - haven't read his response to it, you should Google it because it is definitely worth the read and he makes some really great points.
Muhammad Rasheed - I read it yesterday.
Chris Flick - Figured you did but just wanted to mention it in case others haven't yet. :)
Muhammad Rasheed - To me they look like a couple of goofy teens. To her and her friend I imagine they looked like 30 year old savages scheming on robbing the joint and raping them.
Chris Flick - As far as helping people of their own kind out... I think it's much more complicated than that. I do agree that, for the most part, why people would think that's true. I would offer a slightly different take though.
I think, if you're a type of person that sees "race" before seeing "human", you do tend to "help your own kind out first". But, if you're the type of person that sees 'human" first, you don't have any hesitation helping someone else out no matter what nationality they are. And there ARE people out there of all nationalities that see "human" first before the see "race".
Same thing with people of different sexualities as well. Some people see "gay". Other people see "people".
I'd like to think I see "people" before I see "race" just as I see "people" before I see "sexual orientation". But that's why I first asked this question. It's mostly to try and understand your perspective.
To me, they ALSO look like two goofy kids. In fact, turn the clock back 30 years and those two could be me and my best friend - two goofy white dudes trying to figure out a way to get some extra cash for a movie, basketball game or whatever. No real point there. Just letting you know I thought they looked the same to me as they did to you.
Muhammad Rasheed - Chris Flick wrote: "But, if you're the type of person that sees 'human" first, you don't have any hesitation helping someone else out no matter what nationality they are."
That doesn't sound even remotely like America in any way, shape or form.
Muhammad Rasheed - Chris Flick wrote: "As far as helping people of their own kind out... I think it's much more complicated than that."
There are many other factors, and humans are very complex. But America in particular has been severely racially polarized for centuries, and race-on-race interactions tend to go very badly for my people. The "reverse racism" crowd like to point towards violence towards whites from black criminals, but the criminal element attacks for opportunity, not race. The FBI graph patterns from white-on-black and black-on-white murders look exactly the same. They attack whoever they think is weak like any other predator. It's the "normals" that attack people because of their pre-programmed prejudices, as demonstrated in Tuohy's photo above.
Kamau Mkafele Mshale - Part of the problem is few white people want to step back and examine their thoughts and reactions. Instead they offten just defend and ignore. That ignorance is a large part of the problem. I thinkk white people should ask them selves "would I do X if they were white"
Chris Flick - I think it all depends on where and how you were raised. And much of it depends on each individual's life experiences.I might be unique... I don't know. I was a military brat of a Air Force Sargent. I grew up with a bunch of kids that were all sons and daughters of low ranking military personnel that were all kinds of nationalities... Black, Asian, White, American Indian... all across the spectrum. So maybe my viewpoint IS unique. I don't know.I know one thing... in the last 30 years of my life, i am seeing a whole lot more mixed marriages than I have ever seen before. And there is a whole lot more acceptance of gay and lesbian people as well. Does that mean everything is perfect? Absolutely not. there is still a whole heck of lot more progress to be made. I'm just saying things are changing.
Muhammad Rasheed - At the same time some things are changing, the other side seems to be doubling down on the racist hatred part.
Muhammad Rasheed - They kind of cancel each other out to me.
Chris Flick - Yeah, but the sad part is, that's always going to be the case. I have nothing to say about that except I'm sad that that is the case.To me, it's a Glass half full / Glass half empty kind of thing.
Muhammad Rasheed - Seeing the glass as half full isn't going to stop these folk from killing my people, Chris.